...to think that some of you'd like to see Iain Duncan-Smith live on £53 per week for a year

[SDeuchars]

If there are still spaces on the petition, please sign it.

Chocky But, all those things are being cut, so many people won't have even the basics - food, a home, healthcare. You do realise there are thousands of people who are facing eviction? And just as many who will have to choose whether to buy food or heat their homes? Personally, I think that's despicable, unnecessary and completely counter-productive.

Well said, Judith. "... frenzy over people claiming benefits of different kinds when they don't deserve it" Many of these stories were actually made up. Fictional. The retractions are published in a tiny box, somewhere inside the paper. Meanwhile, the invented 'scandal' has gone viral.

Chocky, you are really not getting the point. Mr Duncan Smith's policy is to drive the under- and un-employed of Britain to the very edge of total destitution, with extremely limited access to healthcare and education. It is sad that the poor of some less wealthy countries are destitute, but that's no reason to say the poor of this - the sixth wealthiest nation in the world - should suffer equally!

In case you missed the OP, Duncan Smith has actually said he could live on £53. He is rich. He is paid - plus huge expenses and other benefits - by taxpayers. He wants to reduce what poor people get from taxpayers, yet has demanded a 42% pay rise for himself. We would quite like him to put his money where his mouth is.

What I'm hearing on here is that it really, really hurts to be living a life on benefits. It's hardly "abject poverty" though is it

But actually, living on £53 a week is probably managageable with proper budgeting. Not much fun but manageable.

I loath it when individuals take, take, take whilst adding nothing to the collective pot, or contributing nothing positive to their community in some way in return.

I'm really delighted that the Tories have finally got round to making things fairer

I think what is really needed is for life on benefits to feel so uncomfortable that paid employment becomes a far more attractive option. Such a level of discomfort will serve To motivate.

Lets face it, it's well known that people used to whinge, without a shred of shame, "but I can't afford to work, I'd lose all my benefits and be worse off". They used to blame the benefits system for trapping them on benefits

Bring on the changes I say! Not soon enough!

Chocky, I have never been on benefits. I have never been hand to mouth. I have never been genuinely poor.

But even I can see that £54 per week in the UK is a miserable, miserable thing. It's called empathy. And again, you fail to address the cost of living which in the UK is very high.

No one is saying the system is perfect as it is. No one is saying nothing needs to change. But this government is demonising poverty and genuine need and blaming the ills of the country on those claiming benefits rather than looking a little closer to home at their tax avoiding chums.

Great stuff, Zavi, where would you like them to find this paid employment to make them better off?

Why do you imagine people choose a life that "really hurts" if they could just sign off and earn more?

Earth to chocky. People in the UK do live in poverty. It's all relative, innit?

Do you want people in a first world country to starve in the gutter before you'll believe it?

And how will that help our economy to generate growth, jobs and prosperity, exactly? I'd really like to know your thoughts on you'd organise that because it's proving a bit of a challenge for politicians of all first world nations.

BTW I have a job that doesn't require me to whine at taxpayers to help me out aside from little things like paying for infrastructure, the Armed Services, education, the NHS, police...

I'd just like our country to do that because I don't know about you, but I've been gravely ill in the past and before I paid off my mortgage, because I'm rich, middle-aged and bought at the right time, I was just three mortage payments from disaster, or whatever they say it is.

Still makes me a bit twitchy about my future income given that I may live for another 40 years with a shrinking work market despite my enviable skills. Are you as lucky as me?

What have you got to pay for with the £53 a week? and for how many people?

"I think what is really needed is for life on benefits to feel so uncomfortable that paid employment becomes a far more attractive option."

Ok, say there were 3 job positions open. And 30 candidates. How will motivation help 27 of those candidates?

Living off £53 a week could be doable depending on circumstances.

What facilities does their kitchen have. Does it have a fridge/freezer.

Do they have access to cheaper shopping options such as a market or a supermarket with a reduced section.

Is their home well insulated or a money drain.

Having to use a laundrette costs more than the electricity to run a machine at home.

Can they walk where they need to go or do they need to pay for public transport.

It's all the little things for an extra £1 here and £2 there that add up to make a big difference.

Yes, I agree that there is competition for jobs out there but there are also loads of people who have been sitting on benefits for years waiting for a "well paid job" to magic out of thin air.

Meanwhile, immigrants with initiative has snaffled up the jobs that the layabouts "couldn't afford" to take on. This whole country has become a land of opportunity for hard-working immigrant families. They should be an example to the home-grown lay-abouts.

My bug-bear is about those who take more out of the common pot than they've put in. If their lives on benefits are uncomfortable so be it

Bring on the discomfort for the non-contributors (and stop giving them concessions) I say!

Zavi, as you say living on £53 per week is 'probably' manageable, can we take it that you haven't actually tried? I mean, including all utilities, insurances, food etc etc? Maybe you should actually try it before you make sweeping statements like that. Somebody should start a petition...

Zavi I know someone who says things like that - they're quite racist.

zavi
I simply dont know what to say to you without resorting to being rude. ..

zavi, a "non contributor" being.....??

Someone paid such shit pay they pay no income tax?
Someone who's unable to work because of ill health?
Someone who has been looking for a job for ages and can't even get an interview?
Someone who lives somewhere the main industry has been closed down leaving them with no prospects?

Because I think these people are more usual than the kind of people you are imaging.

zavi immigrants with initiative are undermining hard-won rights, such as the minimum wage, that they don't have in their own countries.

That benefits governments current and recent present.

I don't blame them. I might try the same thing faced with desperation and with their youth, initiative and willingness to relinquish ties on my side.

But I also have direct experience of legal and illegal immigrants who have left this country of opportunity because they can't make it work and/or have been forced by the authorities to leave.

There aren't many jobs to snaffle.

morebeta - i didn't vote Tory and prob wouldn't in future but at the same time i have to say i do have a certain amount of sympathy for welfare reform. All that aside, I really think the proposed cuts in minimum wage, slashing the threshold for tax credits, not doing anything to support families paying for childcare til 2015...all that is removing the incentive for people, particularly families, to go out to work. Not exactly the platform the Tories were looking to get elected on

Chockypants - we're incredibly grateful for those things - and downright pissed off that they're slowly being taken away from us.

Unfortunately, some disabled, homeless and unemployed people are being left to starve. George Osborne said today that people who don't go to work have made the wrong choice. That is the level of disdain that this government holds the have nots in.

There is competition because there are not enough jobs, you numpty! There are more unemployed people than jobs, hence competition. This obviously means that, if every single vacancy is filled, there will still be millions unemployed. Will they count as lazy, or what?

As for immigrants being willing to work for peanuts and live in a shithole - they leave their kids at home; perhaps you'd like impoverished mums to send their DC to Poland, just so they can clean toilets & live in a shed?

Zavi So does my DP count as a non contributor, he pays NI but barely any tax, and wont pay any when personal allowance goes up in a few years. He would rather work for pittance than be jobless. He is self employed so his income varies so some months are very very tough for us. Since he isnt putting anything in the pot as such we shouldnt be getting anything out?

Clearly midas you deserve to STARVE IN THE STREET.

No, you shouldn't, midas, and by the same token I should be living a significantly happier life on the proceeds of my previous contributions ... oh, wait, it's National Insurance not a personal savings scheme! Quick, somebody tell Zavi.

only 300 people till the petition is 300000 and IDS says its just a stunt..

Thats right .. a Cunning Stunt to get a Stunning to finally show that if they want to be in government they should be prepared to lead by example!

ooh Mn took my stars out! of 'Stunning C---' , well you know what I meant

No, hester, he could starve in the privacy of his own home so long as there were the requisite number of bedrooms.