'The bigger you are the higher the cost of a plane ticket' AIBU to think that this is ridiculous?

[Poppet48]

I have just heard the debate of should a plane ticket cost more for obese people.

I think that this is ridiculous, not only is it discriminating it is highly embarrassing to have to get weighed at the airport check in, Where have the human rights gone?

AIBU to feel this way?

I would love to hear what others think of this.

[MummyPigsFatTummy]

Thinking about it though, going back to the original OP, I do think there is a potential sex discrimination issue here. On average, men weigh more than women. They are taller and bigger-framed (on average). Thin men tend to weigh more than thin women and obese men more than obese women. Overall a pay by weight system will result in men being charged more to fly than women for something they may have no control over. You could argue that if you add luggage in to the equation, men tend to travel lighter. (I have no idea if this is true but you could argue it). However, given the increase in budget travel where everyone tries to stick to hand luggage only and, at the other end of the scale, business travel where people don't take much with them anyway, I think men are going to lose out overall.

[LadyBeagleEyes]

I agree that it's very uncomfortable sitting beside someone who is massively overweight, but I equally agree there is some very nasty fat bashing on this thread.

[EostreChaoticResurrEggtion]

Yes, it would discriminate against men overall. I suppose they could get away with it by charging £x up to y kilograms in weight but have y higher for men than women iyswim.

Wrt travelling light, I took dd to Spain a few years ago and we had a 20kg allowance each. While over in Spain we bought quite a few things so I took note of the weight when they weighed the luggage at the airport on the journey home. Dd's was just under 15kg and mine was just over.

[Lueji]

I am in favour, as I am very light. Selfish.



But then they should weigh hand luggage too.

[HoneyStepMummy]

I do NOT think that ticket prices should be based on weight, nor do I think that obese people should somehow have to pay more for their one seat. I know and understand from years of industry experience how airfares are calculated. It's very very complicated and boring and has nothing to do with weight. It isn't like taking a bus or the tube where you pay xx from zone 1 to 2 and xy from zone 3 to 5 etc etc. When you are on a plane most likely the person next to you has paid a completely different price for their ticket. I couldn't care less what someone else spent, I only care how much I did! There is no way the airlines would take the bet of charging by weight. How can they anticipate if the plane is going to be full of skinny 7 year olds or sumo wrestlers? Since pricing is based a lot around inventory, again it's back to how many seats will one passenger occupy.

I don't especially enjoy being pushed up against the large person next to me, but I also don't enjoy sitting next to someone wearing White Shoulders, or has just eaten garlic, or the air marshall who spent the whole flight staring down my cleavage. I also don't enjoy people who talk really loudly on the bus or fart in the lift. But such is life. Again this cannot be compared to sitting next to a passenger who simply needs two seats due to their size.

Unless you own the airline or have stock in it why would you care what other people pay? What I can tell you is even if obese people had to pay more for the 'extra weight' the savings wouldn't be passed down to anyone else. How do you know that the chubby person sitting next to you didn't already pay for a last minute, full fare ticket that costs the same as a business class fare? Would that make you happy?

Like I said earlier excess baggage fees aren't based on extra fuel consumption. Heavy bags cause damage to other peoples luggage, the luggage bin and employees. Hence the extra cost. Plus it's just another for the airlines to charge more. Why not, they are a business...

The reason hand luggage is limited is again because overstuffing the overhead bins causes damage to the aircraft. Also during bad turbulence large and heavy bags will cause the overhead bins to pop open, resulting in said bags to fall on passengers (I have experienced this).

Somebody asked if the "passenger in 32b would be forgetten in an emergency". No, they wouldn't be forgetten. But at 5"9 and 130 lbs I would not have been able to pull them out of their seat and drag them off the plane.

I really don't like fat bashing and am sure that large people don't really enjoyed being squeezed into a seat either.

Either a very large person will tackle the seat issue at the time of booking and book two seats or a first class one, or they'll chance it and see what happens at the airport.

[EostreChaoticResurrEggtion]

What are/is white shoulders?

HoneyStepMummy your posts have been really interesting. It's being useful to hear from someone who has experience of working with an airline. Do you think that the best policy/solution wrt overspill is that any person who does not fit into one seat should be required to purchase a second one? I think you mentioned it was company policy for the airline you worked for but I'm just wondering if you think it would be the best solution.

[maisiejoe123]

I think they are really interesting too....

[maisiejoe123]

Suspect it might be dandruff!

[EostreChaoticResurrEggtion]

Oh, of course I'm sat there

[HoneyStepMummy]

Hello Eostre! White Shoulders is an old and cheap perfume by Elizabeth Taylor. Smells worse than jet flumes.
Yes, I do agree with the company policy of buying a second seat if there isn't an extra empty one on the plane. If there's an extra seat with moving people around the problem is resolved. They wouldn't have made any money on the empty seat anyhow so why not just use it to resolve the issue?
I also have put the other (not the large one) passenger into a first class seat when coach was full. This wasn't done out of spite. The other passenger was the one who was inconvinienced and out of a seat, and quite frankly two coach seats are much roomier than one first class. The airline also preferred we do that, because the didn't want big people booking coach seats on purpose and demanding a free upgrade (their thoughts, not mine).
TBH you have to be really big not to fit into just one seat. I'm sure this is more of a US problem. I remember working flights out of Texas where we ran out of all five seat belt extensions.

[maisiejoe123]

Isnt it White Diamonds or have I got this all wrong...its just White Shoulders sounds a very odd name for a perfume.....

[maisiejoe123]

Its interesting as well what you say about moving the slimer person into Business. And yes, I did know someone who was going to say at check in for safety reasons he needed a BS seat (he just didnt want to pay for it and was looking for a free upgrade!).

You know when someone comes on with real knowledge of a subject the problems/issues you think you see have already been thought of and in sensible ways too.

I have a friend who REALLY cannot understand that if the plane is not full in BS why shouldnt the airline open it up to everyone once they have boarded.

[EostreChaoticResurrEggtion]

Thank you :)

Yes, White Shoulders does sound an odd name doesn't it.

[ChippingInIsEggceptional]

I don't see how an overweight person can 'spill' over to the point of taking up half (or laughably 3/4 as someone claimed ) of someone else's seat - the arm rest is in the way surely? Yes their arm/shoulder might take up a bit more of the width - but 'sitting on you'? Really?

[HoneyStepMummy]

White Shoulders is a really disgusting perfume www.amazon.com/White-Shoulders-Cologne-Lotion-Parfum/dp/B000P276AK?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 but yes, I'm not sure is Elizabeth Taylor is involved. I might be confused. But it's my solution for getting rid of people you don't like on planes .

Chipping- armrests can be raised. Depends on the aircraft.

[MummyPigsFatTummy]

Really interesting posts HoneyStepMummy. I know on Ryanair at least, they insist you lower the armrest for take off and landing. So you would physically have to be able to get it down to stay in that one seat. However, once the plane has taken off, all bets are off.

The only time I ever suffered with being squashed was on an internal US flight where the man next to me insisted on raising the arm rest as he said it made him uncomfortable and then spilled into my seat. It was unpleasant and hot but I was quite young and too embarrassed to say anything. Now I think i would ask to be moved (although now, he wouldn't have anywhere to spill into as I would be taking up all of my own seat). It particulalrly annoyed me at the time as his wife was on the other side of him and I couldn't see why he didn't raise that arm rest and spill over onto her. Maybe they had had a row....

White Shoulders sounds like a great wheeze to achieve the Holy Grail - a whole three seat row to yourself!

[RoloTamasi]

Being a guy, I'd lose out slightly on a 'total weight' based system, since women tend to be significantly lighter than men. I'm still in favour of it though, if it's a fair reflection of the airline's cost to transport me.

Extra if you take up two seats too. Space is at a premium too!

[maisiejoe123]

I stilll think we should include 'White Shoulder's as potentially people with dandruff. It really does make me shudder when I see it - yuck!

[maisiejoe123]

Everyone complains about Ryan Air and claim they will never fly on them again. Their planes are full. I thought they were fine (and very cheap!)

[MummyPigsFatTummy]

Ryanair are fine when everything works ok and when you fit their profile, ie. you can travel light so ideally aren't with your family. When anything goes wrong they are not so good.

I had a dreadful experience one Christmas Eve trying to get to Ireland. There were airport problems which affected all flights but those of us on Ryanair waited the longest, had to get all our information from other airlines' staff and, when the passengers started to play up and get angry with the Ryanair staff (after hours of waiting in departures with no info while all other flights had left), they apparently went on strike and had to be coaxed back by the staff of other airlines who said they couldn't leave us at gatwick for Christmas. I eventually arrived at Dublin airport at about 3am on Christmas Day. There were plenty of babies and small children on that flight, bless them and their poor parents - I was luckily single and childless at the time. Not that it has stopped me travelling with them. Sometimes they are the only viable option for a particular destination.

But you get what you pay for with them, no doubt about it! And of course with all the added extras they are no longer always so cheap.

[ComposHat]

I think RyanAir work on the same basis as Aberdeen Angus Steak Houses did in the 70s and 80s. That there are enough people in the world that you can rip them all off and treat them with utter contempt once.

[maisiejoe123]

Now I don't see that at all about Ryan Air. You don't have to fly with them. Last year we went to Salzberg with them. They were 55 pounds and BA for 250 pounds. We had to pay 60 for luggage but its no secret they charge.

[ComposHat]

I flew with them once - hated it.

I don't mind EasyJet - I don't mind the no frills approach at all. I just think RyanAir go out their way to make life as needlessly unpleasant for their customers as possible. There boss Michael o'Leary? seems to suggest more and more fanciful ways to screw money out of customers (most of which never get implemented -anyone remember standing room only flights and the pay to use the loo on the flight ideas - but generate loads of publicity for his crappy airline.)

He seems a horrible, horrible man and it seems to be reflected in the airline he runs.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Larger people can overspill into someone else's space, even when the arm rest is down. My friend is big, and when we have flown together her arm is well onto my seat, with the arm roast down. She doesn't need seat belt extenders, but she does worry so much that she won't be able to get the table down that she buys sandwiches to eat on the plane instead of getting the tray of food provided by the airline.

I didn't mind my friend being in my space because I'm small, but I would hate it if it was a stranger. Something does need to change to solve this problem, and I don't see how they can reasonably make sure everyone fits in their seat without having a test chair at check in.

[NuhichNuhaymuh]

I don't think everyone complains about Ryan Air and says they won't fly with them.

Michael O'Leary does indeed come across as a horrible meals scrot and it certainly is reflected in the airline. No bother if your travelling alone or as a couple though. Sitting anywhere is fine then. But with children it's a little mire uncomfortable and you have a worry about seating.

I've seen hideous treatment of a disabled traveller. She was humiliated, shouted at by staff for not giving into her seat quick enough. Also an old man shouted at for not having anywhere to put his bag (overhead bins where full)

If they truly are the cheapest I'll fly Ryan air otherwise not and id pay up to 80 more to avoid then when flying with children.

as for the op on this thread paying by weight wouldn't work, though having another person taking your space is a problem. Though Id have thought a rare enough problem.