Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not feel particularly inclined to help my friend now?

26 replies

DoingTheSwanThing · 21/03/2013 12:19

Very late last night a close friend asked for help with her job application for next stage of training in a professional career. She's left it late and the answer she's asked for an opinion on is mediocre, at best. I was happy to assist and just sat down to do a bit of tweaking (not adding to, purely improving the wording slightly. The content of it is entirely her work).

Anyway, she's sent me the entire application. One of the sections is to do with publications. We worked together on a paper a few years back where we were joint authors. It was a national publication and quite a big thing for both of us at the time (probably helped us win our current jobs). Her name went first, purely because they were listed in alphabetical order. On the application she's said "lead author". Ditto "lead presenter" in a subsequent presentation we were invited to give... Where as I recall, I did the vast majority of talking and all of the handling of difficult questions.

I also helped her prep for previous interview and she has insisted that was what got her the job.

I'm hurt. And angry. Deadline is tomorrow and I've sat down in a rare slot of babies asleep to do it. I don't want to. Don't know what to do at all. I have text her with the words "Oi, mrs. Joint authors! :-p" not likely to get a reply as she's working a long day and I'd imagine the moment will have passed by the time I get a response.

OP posts:
Convert · 21/03/2013 12:23

If the thing that's stopping you wanting to help is that she has tried to make herself look better on her application then I think YABU. I can understand you feeling a bit miffed but doesn't everyone try to preset themselves in the best possible light?

redskyatnight · 21/03/2013 12:24

I think it would have been kind of your friend to point out that she'd said "lead" in her application before sending it to you.

But ... remember this is a job application. Standard advise is to big yourself up (she's stretched the truth rather than specifically lied). It's also common advise to talk about what "I" did even if it was a team effort.

I don't think it's worth losing a close friend over. Hopefully your friend will reply and say something like I just did.

jollygoose · 21/03/2013 12:24

I think I would support her as we all sometimes use a little poetic licence as long as it cannot affect your own career progression. Howe ver I would also make it clear to her that you really didnt like it and make it clear you dont expect her to tell others about "all her own work".

Icelollycraving · 21/03/2013 12:25

Ooh I can understand why you are hurt. Be the bigger person & help her. Tell her you've helped her but you are upset & it's the last time you will assist her in getting a job. If she is the lead,perhaps she ought to take it.

mmmuffins · 21/03/2013 12:30

It is cheeky of her to say she was lead presenter and author as it is not true, but I suppose she is trying to fluff up her application. Assuming her downplay of your contributions wont come back to hurt your career in anyway, it is not that big of a sin.

I would probably delete the "lead" from her application, and in your list of corrections/comments mention that she accidently listed herself as lead author and presenter, so you corrected that for her Smile

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 21/03/2013 12:30

Everyone bull shits on a job application so don't take it personally.

It's a silly thing to lose a good friend over.

Pandemoniaa · 21/03/2013 12:32

OK, it's not fair. But will allowing her to title herself "lead author" have ramifications for your career? I'd not lose a good friend over this nor would I stop helping them but yes, I think I would also have texted a similar message.

AMumInScotland · 21/03/2013 12:34

Unless this is going to affect your own "reputation" within your career, I think you just have to accept that it is the usual "emphasising your own contribution" which is pretty normal in job applications, where things were in fact a team effort.

It doesn't mean that she thinks she was the lead, it just means she is putting herself in the most positive light without actually lying.

WorldFamous · 21/03/2013 12:36

YANBU. I have some sympathy for you here. I used to work in a similar environment and it was considered really poor form for authors of published work to take credit for work that wasn't primarily their own. Even saw publishing partnerships fall apart acrimoniously from things like this. Unlike someone has said earlier, I think it does have the potential to impact on your career in the future; if it's a small or well-known field, if she is putting it out that she was the lead person in the work, it makes it difficult for you at a later stage, if you need to or want to for your career, to state otherwise. I would call her on that, and ask that she amends her statement. It's just a bit crap and unethical. She can talk up her contribution in an interview if she can pull it off, but to state in writing that she took the lead on it when she didn't is just wrong. It wouldn't reflect well on her if the truth came out later.

Helping her with the application form is a separate matter, though I can see why it would colour your attitude to giving that help now. I would still do this, but make your feelings clear about the authorship thing.

On a separate note, she seems to rely heavily on you for critical things in her career development. Do you think you need to step back from that a bit?

WorraLiberty · 21/03/2013 12:38

YABU, it doesn't affect your career does it?

Of course she's going to sell herself in the best possible way, even if that means over selling herself.

Fakebook · 21/03/2013 12:39

You're not both in competition for a job are you? She's just trying to make herself look better on the application, so be the bigger person and help her. Do it quickly; babies have a tendancy to wake up when you're in the middle of something really important.

stickingattwo · 21/03/2013 12:41

Yabu - she's doing an application, is is what people do for applications.

If she was running around your work telling people she was the lead etc that would be different, but she isn't.

Luce808 · 21/03/2013 12:42

Absolutely what WorldFamous said.

WhatchaMaCalllit · 21/03/2013 12:49

Could you maybe say it to her that you thought the better term to describe her input and involvement in the earlier work would be "Co-Author" and "Co-Presenter" rather than lead? At least she is at a 50-50 involvement there and it would be harder for a future employer to dispute (if any follow up is required with the references supplied)?

TheCraicDealer · 21/03/2013 12:57

YABU. If this was a job that you had also been going for, then of course she would be completely in the wrong to deliberately put you at a disadvantage. But we all have the opportunity to "flesh out" our achievements on paper, and I'm sure a lot of recruiters take into account the fact that the application they have in front of them may not be 100% truthful.

I would be a bit Hmm about the fact she's be so blasé about it and then asking you to critique and check her submission. Maybe back off from helping her a little bit.

Original poster
DoingTheSwanThing · 21/03/2013 13:19

Reply to text was "ok" Hmm.

I've made a few changes and it reads a heck of a lot better. I have, however, left it to her to pull everything back together. Otherwise I would've presented her with a lovely complete answer.

Next to the oral presentations section I've said "alphabetically, yes. I'm hurt (perhaps unreasonably so) but we'll say no more about it."

We're not in any competition. We work in different specialities (both competitive, hers moreso). Her career is more advanced than mine as I've taken time out to have children. She's still single but very vocal about wanting what I have.

There's a bit of a backstory with me being picked up and dropped as suits in the past which I think goes some way to explaining my feelings on this. Hence I didn't want to bite my tongue this time. I've has similar issues with other friends - suspect this is more of a reflection on me Sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
DoingTheSwanThing · 21/03/2013 13:47

Sorry, no, I won't be needing to apply for a job in the medium-term. I'm fortunately in a training position for a good few years.

OP posts:
Luce808 · 21/03/2013 15:51

I don't think it's a matter of making yourself sound better in a job application. If you're a co-author you're a co-author, it's as simple as that. Quite apart from the fact that presumably if anyone checked they would see she was co-author and would therefore know that she'd been economical with the truth on her application. Which reflects much worse than writing the truth! I'm totally with your peed off-ness OP!

Tanith · 21/03/2013 15:57

I'm sorry? Why are you filling in her application?!!

If she's so disinterested she has abdicated responsibility to you, perhaps she doesn't deserve it anyway.

digerd · 21/03/2013 16:02

It's not telling the truth - it is deception. Agree with OP and Luce.

Mumsyblouse · 21/03/2013 16:04

In my field, if you are first author, it means you are the lead author, so she probably doesn't need to say 'lead' as it would be implied. This is why if I write joint papers, and we were genuinely both contributing equally, I would write two, so we would both get to be 'lead'. I am not sure how you can be 'lead' in a presentation (or why you then didn't swap authorship of that one so you had one 'lead' each).

I can see why your nose is a bit out of joint though, it is common to 'big' up your role a little in job applications, and she was foolish to share her bigged up version with you.

cumfy · 22/03/2013 00:44

Perhaps you should edit her skillset to include Taking the piss and Plagiarism.Grin

Seriously, why do you put up with this ?

Proofreading for colleagues is fine; but it's a 2-way street.

Snazzynewyear · 22/03/2013 00:55

I would be annoyed by this. As others have said, I think from now on you need to suddenly be incredibly busy when she asks for your help with job applications. I wouldn't have a row over it, I just wouldn't be available.

echt · 22/03/2013 06:27

I think she's a fucking chancer cheeky madam.

Step back. Or charge consultation fees.

AwkwardSquad · 22/03/2013 06:38

I think she needs to gets jobs on her own merits rather than with you providing free recruitment mentoring. She's taking advantage of your good nature. And given that she's so very clever (lead author...), surely she can manage an application form...