Angry another attack on sahm mum!

[mam29]

I was worried about new childcare arrangements and its got high limit earn up to 150k but both parents have to be working.

Im guessing from this article the current childcare voucher scheme being phased out

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21833929

where exactly are these term time jobs and cheap flexible childcare.

where are all these jobs that dont seem to require person to be fully flexible.

had 1st in 2006 went back full time when she was one in 2007.
fulltime place 52weeks nursery was 9000 a year you can claim relief up to 6k.

used vouchers

quit work after no 2 used vouchers for preschool education who had reduced to 1day a week doing nursery.

child no 2 started 1day a week from 18months and nursery been really good for her development. its £40 a day so 160 on 4week month.

husband used couchers as he works fulltime saves us a little.

child 2 now gets 15hour funding which helps.

was hoping to start child no 3 and use childcare vouchers now looks like cant do that and might have to wait until fnding term after 3rd birthday which think is bit late.

To make matters worse child no 2 has september birthday so missed this sept school year by 16days so have year extra paying childcare.

we lucky we dident lose child benefit as at moment we below 50k
we lost £10 a week childcare tax credits last april.

feel sorry for sahm mum whos husnand earns over 50k loses cb and now childcare vouchers yet they say preschool education is important and good for educational outcomes.

we very much feeling squeezed middle tonight as we just about get by each month as we privatly rent too.

[ImagineJL]

Mam my point is that working mums have all those exact nightmares - doctors appointments that run late (I had to leave before seeing the Dr with my breast lump because she was running late and it was nearly school pick-up time), cake sales, non uniform days, Easter bonnets etc AND we have to fit in paid work as well.

[maisiejoe123]

There was a film I saw the other day when a working mum had to make a cake. She brought a shop brought one and messed it up a bit.

Its a bit like that in this house.....

And we all have the overunning dr's appointments and all the rest that others have listed.

[mam29]

oh god as middle one goes private day nursery no rest for wicked tommorow.

its the easter party and annual easter bonnet competition,
which invokved rush to local florist buy hat and chicks and ribbon im pretty sure we wont win.

also it clashes with flipping eldests freinds gym party in middle nowhere.

we planned for this so hubbsy worked lst 2weekends.
hes been away this week and having thur/sat off.

so hes doing the gym party.
But i still have to run shops tommorow as not been able to go shopping this week with sick kids to get pressie and card.

she had party earlier in week after school at softplay centre again miles away other side of city.

world book day had arguments and tantrums over costumes.
had to run to sainsburys to get red nose and go shop and get some change and bake cakes.

Havent even had time to rummage through lost property mountain this week a sshe keeps losing cardies and jumpers.

hair desperatly needs doing dying do myself but havent managed to get to flipping boots mot have 5mins yo myself this week.

Im blessed with poor sleepers, early risers and tantrums at bedtime.
I was so relived last night taht the 8pm preschool meeting was cancelled as chair was ill.

We not materialistic but we do worry about bills and how much we spend on groceries and I worry about kids shoes as so expensive .

[maisiejoe123]

Mam - but we all have these issues. We should be bonding over it not assuming that working parents dont have this tasks too.

[ceeveebee]

Mam - do you think WOHM have a magic fairy that does all that kind of stuff for them?

[gaelicsheep]

When I talk about life as a SAHP being harder I am referring to the preschool years. Once school starts I truly believe it is much harder being a WOHP. Even in my case with a SAHD at home, so many of the school requirements are really female orientated and I find myself running around like a headless chicken splitting myself in two. When DD starts school I will be splitting myself in three.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

mam29, you make me laugh. I could have written your post. I have decided that dd2 won't go to a bday party in the Easter holidays, as I simply can't get there without major hastle. Sometimes, you've just got to let things slide. It's not worth the stress. The dc won't mind missing the odd party. I didn't bake cakes for Easter sale this year as I simply couldn't be arsed, with looking after a very active nearly 2 year old at the same time. I normally try to make the effort, but honestly, you just can't do everything and I'm not even going to try anymore. Agree that shoes are bloody expensive. I always buy 2 half sizes bigger in sales and hope for the best!

[ihategeorgeosborne]

School does seem to be pretty full on these days. I don't remember it being like that when I was a child.

[mam29]

I agree it must be harder when working when they school, age unless the school offers wrap around care.

Eldests old school did breckfast club£ 2.50 8am-8.55 taken to classrooms.
after school club 3.15-5.30 which was too early pickup for most parents.
But the school did have quite a few childminders.
it ran holiday club outside provider £80 a week but tehy decided to get rid of them.

new school does clubs 3.30-4.15weather dependent not 1st week of term, brekkie club use once week as cant be 2places at once on a wed.

I havent seen any childminders at news school and dont know many parents.

every school has random inset days and im doing 2schools know a few doing that due to school shortages where we live.

Maybe my cakes wouldent look so bad if 2 and 3year old dident try help me make them.

getting all 3out door on time in morning is stressful.

Shoes im jinxed as new pair broke after 6weeks and shop had shut down got some in charitry shop at xmas and they just broke.
so half way through school year and just brought another pair of clarkes for her wide chunky feet.

I love them dearly but when all 3crying at once.
throwing tantrums at same time.

I try spend one to one time with each of them
I hate toddler groups have tried.

I thourght pre staying at home I would have more time but it flys by.

I do wrote lists and some spill over to next day.

I try fit in errands go bank, postoffice, dry cleaners ect.

younger 2dont sleep through night.

Its not like I dismissed the fulltime working I did and dident work out.

Its about number crunching and unless i find specific salary even with 1200 as does not include kids5+ then its not worth me going back.

[CookieB]

Doesn't anyone think that people who earn £50k wouldn't miss cb? My dp & I earn £30k between us. Him working full time mon-fri & I work 24 hrs over sat-sun. It's awful, we can't get a mortgage for that but I cannot change my hours due to traffic in work (royal mail) but at least I can always be there for the children when they are ill during the wk & I have income too. I have seen a career advisor who estimated if I worked full time, I would be £120 per month worse off due 2 childcare costs. Do you know the carers earn a pittance too? My best friend works in childcare & I earn more than she does from my part time job. Where does all the cash go? My aunts childcare fee for her ds is more than her mortgage payment & she still has 2 provide food. It's a catch 22 .

[ssd]

cookie the cash goes to the owners of the private nurseries who pay 18 yr olds £6.50 per hour

[DrCoconut]

The student thing needs addressing. DH is going to be a student from September. He earns less than me and the way things are going his prospects stop here unless he retrains. So we have decided to go for it. He will get some student support which will roughly equal his current salary after travel expenses so break even. But, we will lose our childcare help from tax credits and it looks as though I may earn too much for a student childcare grant to be payable. I'm on £20k so not loaded (though I agree it's not low either). If we have to pull DS out of nursery it will be a mess. Surely the fact that average salaries for DH's new career start at £30k mean it is worth him doing this for a long term investment and a couple of years childcare help is worth it for the rest of his working life (hopefully) not needing any help? Where is the incentive to improve your lot? The same goes for part time workers. I started doing 2 hours a week and built up to the point I am at now. OK, it's not high flying but as a couple we cover all our basics apart from childcare. When DH's salary improves we can look at things like pensions and getting the house modernised to a better standard, giving ourselves a better outlook for the future. I'd rather see people who are really trying to help themselves given assistance than people on 6 figure salaries or those who are at home and able to look after the children themselves.

[mam29]

well said dr coconut.

I would love to retrain but high tuition fees, dricriminatry rules on retraining and no help with childcare mean I cant.

If I go out tommorow under new system get myself p/t job seena few 8hour positions going national min wage then

its be under 10k so wouldent be paying any tax.
but it also means i wont be eligible for 1200 per child even though we both working.

perhaps if both me and husand were low paid ie he earnts 12-15k get we get working tax credits which I think help top up a low paid persons wages and some help with childcare.
yet 2low paid parents be paying not very much tax .

I used to be on 20k after child no 1 and it dident stretch far after childcare.

what Im angry about and surly its obvious is

if mum goes out to work and her husband earns higher salary than they cant get 1200 as they not earning enough!Because tax credits eligibility are measured on joint income!

yet new child benefit is taken individaully which gives the anomoly of 2high paid people still getting and one on 60k not getting.
its because its too expensive to menas test so they doing it in this unfair way.

what incentive is their for a sahm with middle income husband ie to go out get part time work if they very little gain, more stress and have to pay for childcare?

Tax credits just stop employers paying decent wages as they make up shortfall.if couple are getting more in tax credits that match /equal earnings and more than the tax they paying in then whats the net benefit?

Tax credits did stipulate 16hours which recently gone up to 24hours yet employers are not increasing hours.
Think the new unversil credit does not stipulate amount of hours just that they both work yet the new childcare stipulates 10 29hours at natoional min wage which is just short of fulltime and would need childcare.

Tax credits are not income they a benefit!

I know 1single part time mum.works less than tax threshold so pays no tax, pays little ni i guess.

get 600housing
80cb
120quid a week tax credits for 1child/
350 maintaiance from ex does not count as income.
council tax relief not sure how much.
free school dinners -ours is 40per month!

yes shes working but shes not making huge contribution and her childs a junnior and she has family close by.

The majority of working mums I know have 1 child school age.
If i just had 1 child school age I would have returned to work but I have 2toddlers and childcare for the just too pricey.

People also assume every schools has breckfast club/after school clubs and they dont so state educational provision and nursery education is not level playing feild in uk.

The only people I hear of having nannies and au pairs are very wealthy or high income.

A few working parents use private day schools as wrap around provison is better than state and have holiday clubs as the 2nearest preps do but we cant afford private school for 3 unless both earning high salaries.

Im bit shocked at the viciousness of working mums towards sahm mums.

I believe in freedom of choice and not judging others for choices they make.

we pay for our choices by having less money but we get by.
apart from c and little bit relief on tax funded vouchers get no state help.

We not even taking into consideration costs of living different areas.
housing into account those lucky enough to get social housing pay less rent than private.

the leader of a union bob crow 200k_ a year lives in a council house.

Yes privates expensive but for those getting hosuing benefit means they have a lot more of their earnings.

we rent private and cant afford to buy.Again our choice although whn went to bank for mortgage when we both worked combined salary of 52k at time they offered us 125k which buys very little here.

banks actually look at affordability so childcare costs are taken into consideration.

Every ones making assumptions about peoples choices think its black and white its not.

[SPBInDisguise]

OP you sound really unhappy with your life :( And I don't see any visciousness, but WOHMs are pointing out that doctor appointments, non uniform days, cake sales etc happen to them too.

[maisiejoe123]

There is a lot of listing out of roles that SAMP's undertake and often great detail regarding situations that havent gone right for them.

Well, what makes you think that if you are working and need to take a child to the GP that things will go much more smoothly. SAHP's have the day to themselves but fgs - working parents have the same problems and we either have to juggle the situation within the family or pay someone to undertake something that we just cannot manage.

With regard to claiming childcare vouchers for SAHP's - well its like me claiming the disability allowance - completely unacceptable. I am not disabled and you dont need childcare - you are the childcarer!

[maisiejoe123]

Gaelic - I found the complete opposite. Going to school and paying for extended care and then using our normal childmidner in the hols worked very well for us.

What I found difficult in the early days when they were babies is getting out the front door with us both working but not unmanageable.

[mam29]

No im not massivly unhappy.

me and hubby accept they our kids we chose them, we fund them it is what it is.

I know when they all in school chances going back will be greater as yes they will need some childcare but the bulk of it in state is free.

I have allowed hubby to move companies increased his salary by being at home.

when we both worked for same company and had 1 child in nursery be both got abuse from our area managers when went to go get her or was sick and questioned our commitment.
My area manager even rang me up saying just had another area manager rin me up saying your husbands left his store early why is this and my response he had management cover I dident and was running a store on your area so tell the other area manager to do one its not the 1950s.

Maybe its because we worked same industry and company it was more obvious.

I was made to feel very crap going back, sidelined for promotion was horrid and our marriage began to suffer.

My eldest is still very much daddys girl as between ages 1-3 she was in nursery or with daddy most of time.

we were at diffrent points in career as he was older so higher up that me where as i was told I had to prove myself!
Hes always has been the higher earner.

I was speaking to mumat party today works fulltime 3primary kids .
last out 3going to school september and she said she will miss nursery hours.
she works week and had 3parties to attend this weekend as well as catch up on housework and shopping so do understand a working a parent still has all those things.

I have yet to see many state schools working parent freindly.
she said shes had problems getting holiday care for them as they different ages and her school does not offer it.
Yes there are clubs at her school but they first come first served.

Maybe I would be in better mood if they were not giving

5%tax breaks to 150k or over from april
if the cut off joint income was 6k then have no problem its the anomoly.

The old vouchers gave higher rate tax payers less relief and the new one offers low paid part time mums nothing and allows combined salaries above 60-k to 300k to subsidise their childcare.

I think both types of mum can have it hard depending on their income, support, childcare availaible in their area raising kids is hard work and expensive so such a pity to see so much negativity towards sahm.

Theres that saying lets not judge someone until they walked in their shoes.

They atlk about europe as good model for cheaper childcare ie lets redced rations here that will improve quality and lower parents bills but fail to emntion lot of sucessful european countries and scandanavia heavily subsidise their childcare.

[SPBInDisguise]

Glad to hear it

[mam29]

its more political anger and frustration not aimed at working mums I appreciate they do good job.

just so many shortsighted unfair policies.
A lot seem to lean in favour of very high earners.
I dont feel as if we all in it together.

The whole work hard and get on with failure to claifify exactly what they mean.


The big soceity long forgotton so my voluntary work does not count as contribution to the uk.

Not to mention im bringing up the little tax payers of future and ensuring they get good education to get good jobs and pay high taxes.

Its does feel like theres presies for the lowpiad cpuples.
pressies for the high paid
tough luck to those in the middle.

I voted tory.
I hate labour they made the whol nation dependent and entitled.
lib dems bit toothless
ukip agree some policies but bit racisist and no chance being in power.

I have tough choice at next election.

I dont think they understand us or many others.

I admit i was stupid when I was younger and ttc 1 i did belive I could have it all.

Now I know something has to give or you have to be fortunate

that have free family childcare
supportive employers
or other halfs work meshes well with yours.

I have freind ttc baby no 1
shes the higher earner she gets generous maternity pay compared to private sector, opportunity to do her role part time,more holidays.
her lazy arse husband also nhs earning 16k as a warehouse person and always on sick paid and moved 3miles down rd and gets relocation travel of 30quid a month and loads of holiday.
At moment they have comfy lifestye managed to buy house as parents gave her 10grand, go on couple holidaya abroad a year .
will be a real shock when baby arrives.

im grateful my husbands supportive and appreciates me we a team.
sometimes him in retail pays off he does some of school runs mix late and early shits means he does clubs.
he does his mothers shopping and errands for her on his day off too.

[MummytoKatie]

Op - some of the things you have said make me wonder if you are really understanding what the changes mean?

Firstly - I don't think this is coming in until 2015 by which point your dc2 will definitely be at school and dc3 will either be at school or at a minimum will be getting the 15 free hours. So I don't think you are affected anyway.

However, assuming I'm wrong about this....

Secondly - how many hours a week is your dc2 doing at the moment? Is he doing more than 15? Because if it is just the 15 and dc3 hasn't yet started then can you not save the money you are not paying at the moment and put it towards when dc3 starts?

Thirdly - when your husband stops buying childcare vouchers his post-tax salary will go up. Presumably by about £112 a month as that is 70% of £160. (Does anyone know if childcare vouchers are per-tax and NI or just pre-tax?) so you will still have most of the cost of the one day a week you want.

So I really think you are worrying about nothing.

[janey68]

Mam- just a couple of points. There is NO mileage in feeling envious of people who use family as free childcare. It often comes with disadvantages, just read MN for evidence of that, people moaning because granny feeds the kids a biscuit or lets them watch a bit of telly. Also, if you rely on family then you're up shit creek if they move, get ill or die, so it's a precarious existence if you need the money and count on freebies from family

Second- things are all relative aren't they? You see yourself as squeezed middle even though you're not working. Many people are so squeezed they can't even contemplate having one parent at home.

[SPBInDisguise]

"I dont feel as if we all in it together."
No, and it makes you wonder if the govern,met think there is anyone out there who actually believes this! They're doing a good job pitting wohms against Sahms, strivers against shirkers, worthy disability vs fraudsters. Hyping it all up so we all hate a certain stereotype they've got us thinking is a huge problem while the very rich get quietly richer

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Too right SPB.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Now they're offering rich people the opportunity to buy second or third homes with tax payers money, whilst nicely pushing up house prices for them and their mates. All first time buyers want is to be able to buy an affordable home. This government is worst than the last and I never thought I'd say that in a hurry. The rich are definitely getting much richer. The rest of us definitely are not. I can't wait until 2015.

[SPBInDisguise]

It doesn't help that I keep reading "I heart George Osborne" which makes the things you're saying need a second read. Plus I think, we'll even if you voted for them would you really advertise it like that :)