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To think that this is inhumane and going back to draconian workhouses

38 replies

diaimchlo · 14/03/2013 07:20

I have had this on my FB News feed from a well known and trusted community page.

www.facebook.com/pages/The-People-Vs-The-Government-DWP-and-Atos/430588573684275?ref=stream

This makes me ashamed to be British.....

OP posts:
ParsingFancy · 14/03/2013 13:26

Given I'm busy posting the DWP's publications, I should also repost the initial article, which otherwise took several clicks to reach. I have no way of knowing whether the writer is indeed a DWP whistleblower, as they claim, or whether their summary of the coercive side of the Trouble Families Programme is accurate. Caveat lector.

Hi

I work within the dwp so please don't use my name as it could cost me my job.

The dwp are rolling out nationally an initiative to work with 120k families whose lives are blighted by joblessness, single parents, crime and truancy. We have specially trained personnel to work closely with them to break these harmful trends and integrate them into society, improve their lives and make working the preferred options.

However what has not been released and is being kept hush hush is that these families are to achieve certain targets working with our staff and stakeholders, professional organisations which have been hand picked to get the desired results as expediently as possible. The department is investing a great deal of resources into this project and participants are to be under no illusions that equal investment and commitment are required from them. This will not be an option where families can choose not to be involved in.....if they refuse to participate, their benefits will be stripped under sanctions. If after a period of 26 weeks results are not forthcoming and improvements tangible and sustained all benefits will be withdrawn. The adults will either have to work in any position that can be found and will be paid via fuel food and basic clothing. If the children continue to truant and participate in anti social behaviour those under 13 will be taken into care and those over 13 will be expected to work under the same terms as their parents with tutors twice weekly to ensure a basic level of literacy and numeracy. They will not be living with their parents but in dormitory accommodation. Tenders have been received and a short list drawn up for the lots as with pip. Fore runners are G4S, Deloittes, Veolia, Capita and Serco

Myself and many other staff are horrified but are powerless to stop this. The govt are saying they will save more on what they cut on the benefits including DLA for the people in these families getting high rates for anger and behavioural problems, housing benefits and benefits for babies and children. Any of the parents having children throughout or once they've failed the initiative will be taken into the care of local authorities. The families will be allowed supervised access at contact centres as deemed acceptable by the people overseeing the project and the handlers for the individual families.

This is all underway and being arranged as we speak. The govt see these families as an absolute blight on society and one way or another are determined to get rid of them in any way they can. Their view is that support and money haven't helped, ASBO's are a joke and seen as a badge of honour and children whether in these families or other families on low incomes are a drain on resources and they believe if they stop paying then the children will stop being born and those already here will have to either conform or to be excluded and earn their keep. To get disability allowance for children is going to be nigh on impossible which is why the reforms haven't targeted them, new plans are underway as the perception is that ALL children need care and parents know this before having them therefore there are only very rare circumstances where additional support is justifiable.

Thank You

diaimchlo · 14/03/2013 13:38

LittleChickPea it was not a quote. Maybe I should have worded it as a question.... Would you have believed that anyone claiming benefits would be left destitute without any financial help whatever? if you had been told this a couple of years ago? I most certainly wouldn't.

As ParsingFancy points out very well it is not only covering "people that are capable of working but don't and continually abuse the system" (it is widely reported that these people only amount to approx 0.05% of the welfare bill.) It also covers people with health problems who are high cost to the public purse.

OP posts:
LittleChickpea · 14/03/2013 14:47

diaimchi firstly I don't think anyone has advocated taking all financial assistance from people in need. Where have you seen/read/heard this? Howevr there needs to be a full review of the benefits system (taking people with disabilities out of this answer) because the current system is ridiculous. It has to change We need a system where working people and families are not earning less than people on benefits. Without meaning to repeat myself, to think tht there are occasions were some people on benefits are getting £398 a week in benefits staggers me. You would need to earn £26,500 a year before taxes to get the same.

diaimchi do you think that someone working full time, earning £20,000 a year before 17.5% of that is taken in taxes should be subsidising those people that have never worked a day in their lives? Do you think that's a fair system?

diaimchlo · 14/03/2013 16:49

No I don't think it is fair at all LittleChickPea if they have just sat there and decided that is the way they want to lead their life, I agree they should earn their benefit but not in the way this Government is advocating, making them do 30 hours a week for £71 per week doing the Workfare Program, giving the multinational firms free labour. The employers that use this Program should pay the claimant the shortfall between £71 and minimum wage, that is a fairer system, they should also employ them after the Program time finishes instead of taking on another freebie employee.....

If claimants whether they are unemployed or receiving ESA Work Activity Group do not do the Workfare then their benefits sanctioned and in a lot of cases cut completely, therefore leaving them with no income as HB is stopped as soon as their benefits are and has to be reapplied for. If they ask for the decision to be reconsidered they are not entitled to anything until it is finalized, there is no time limit on the reconsideration period at all..... That is also the case for those who have to endure the ATOS system, if they are found fit for work, when they clearly are not and ask for reconsideration they are left without anything at all and told to claim JSA, which is a lost cause as they are deemed unfit to work by Health Professionals. I hope that explains the reasons why I personally find the current system to be inhumane.

As for paying your taxes to subsidize people that have never worked you are also subsidizing a hell of a lot more than that, the MPs and their exorbitant expenses, the banks, overseas trade, NHS, defense etc.

The whole point of this thread was the harsh unfair way this Government is picking on the people they feel are costing them money......

OP posts:
ParsingFancy · 14/03/2013 17:18

WTF? Where did the "never worked a day in their lives" come from?

"Never worked" isn't a criterion for Troubled Families?.

Being disabled is (specifically stated under "local authority discretion").

It's nice that you feel disabled people should have more, LittleChickpea, but that's not what the Troubled Families Programme is doing. Even in the DWP's official version.

In fact, Troubled Families? can be in work. The criterion is that the household includes at least one member getting an out-of-work benefit (which can be incapacity benefits). So adult children living with low-paid working parents could trigger Troubled Family? status for the household.

ParsingFancy · 14/03/2013 17:26

The detail of what's being done to these families really does matter.

If a programme is useful to the household, and only taken up if it's going to be useful to the household, that's great.

If it's primarily coercive with few likely benefits - and the mandatory Work Programme for disabled people who've just been found, er, not fit to work, is precisely that - this programme will make the lives of vulnerable people significantly worse.

Even on the DWP official version, first glance suggests this may be more bad news for families with a disabled member.

LittleChickpea · 14/03/2013 17:28

diaimchlo this is where we differ. I gree with the Workfare Programe. I think if you are getting benefits and you are fit to work then you should work for it. If you don't lik it then tough every one else paying taxes to pay for the welfare system have to work.... Why should people getting them not do anything for their benefits. We need a stem that rewards workers..

Parsing not sure were you are coming from because I haven't commented on your copy/paste information regarding DWP and your notes on Troubled Families. Confused

LittleChickpea · 14/03/2013 17:29

Please excuse the spelling.. Auto spell check, nightmare!

LittleChickpea · 14/03/2013 17:32

I think I have made my position clear so will allow you to carry on with your debate. We will never agree on this issue! Enjoy ladies Smile

diaimchlo · 14/03/2013 17:56

It is not an enjoyable discussion, I agree with you we will never agree due to me actually caring about people.

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 14/03/2013 18:07

Interesting article on workfare.

www.redpepper.org.uk/workfare-a-policy-on-the-brink/

Darkesteyes · 14/03/2013 18:08

Workfare IS displacing paid work
From the linked article.....

At the end of 2012, stores such as Argos, Asda, Superdrug and Shoezone made use of the government?s workfare schemes to meet their seasonal demand, instead of hiring extra staff or offering overtime. This is part of an increasing trend to replace paid employees with workfare participants. In September the 2 Sisters Food Group sacked 350 workers at its plant in Leicester. It moved the production of its pizza toppings to Nottingham, claiming that the move was ?as a result of several recent strikes?. However, instead of employing people, the company has taken on 100 workfare placements, ?to give them an idea of what it?s like to work in the food sector?.

It?s not just companies using workfare. It has an increasing presence in the public sector too, plugging the gaps left by redundancies and cuts. Hospitals, public transport and councils have all used workfare participants to provide services. Halton Council has shed 10 per cent of jobs since 2010, and is now using workfare placements. Lewisham has closed some of its libraries. It has now emerged that its new, outsourced ?community libraries? use people mandated onto workfare for free labour.

Darkesteyes · 14/03/2013 18:10

Chickpea many people have paid NI before becoming unemployed. So if they are to work for their benefits then shouldnt NI be abolished.

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