to think that children should buy presents out of their own money?

[Dromedary]

My DCs are 10 and 8. They receive very little pocket money, and small amounts of cash at birthdays and Christmas if they're lucky. If it is a family birthday, or Christmas, I expect them to use some of their own money to buy presents, and to really give some thought to the gift. If they had no money (but they should really hold enough back), they could make something. They sometimes also buy little presents for friends' birthdays, eg a packet of sweets. This makes the giving and the receiving really mean something. I have been really put off by seeing my, much older, nieces give no presents, or give presents which they have at best chosen at speed, with their mum doing the buying. They simply prefer to keep their money for themselves, and their mum goes along with this. At the same time, they don't bother to say thank you if you give them a present. It just feels like take take take.

[Cherriesarelovely]

I don't think everything the OP has said is bonkers. The later posts about not charging her children for ingredients for biscuits are I agree though. I don't think you should expect your child to spend their christmas or birthday money on other people's presents but I do think they should make a lovely card or do something towards it.

I don't think her comments about her nieces never saying thank you for gifts are at all unreasonable though. I have 2 nephews who are just like this and it is rude and ungrateful. Nobody is saying they should fawn all over the gift giver or write an elaborate letter but surely it isn't too much to expect children to actually say "thank you" when you hand them a gift?

[HeathRobinson]

Why make things harder than they need to be, just for your kids though? Maybe they don't want to make 'a lovely card'. Maybe they just want to schlep off to the shop like most adults do?

[StanleyLambchop]

The ops nieces are by her own definition 'much older'. How smug the OP is being about her dcs compared to her nieces- but her dcs have not hit their teens yet. Maybe they will be like the neices too when they do. Very smug attitude of her perfect parenting, when she is only 10 years into it. Parenting is a long game OP.

[Cherriesarelovely]

I know what you mean heath but the point that she is making I think is that it is nice if children give a little bit of something as well as enjoying receiving it. I agree with that to a certain extent.

Why is it an excuse that her neices are older? My nephews (well, the 2 I was talking about ) have never said thank you ever. They are now 15 and 17. My other nieces and nephews do (other nephews are roughly same age). How is she being U in expecting a thank you?

[Schooldidi]

My dd1 started spending her own money on family presents (ie mine) when she was about that age. I certainly wasn't going to give her money to spend on my present and I was on my own at the time, so she saved up a little bit out of her pocket money each week and managed to afford a little box of chocolates from a local shop. It was very thoughtful and lovely for her to have done it, even though it was less than she would normally have spent when it was grandma's money (we moved away from my parents around then so grandma and grandad couldn't take her shopping).

Now she buys presents for me, dp and dd2 out of her own money and everyone else we pay for. Of course she gets a bit more pocket money now she's 13, so the present budget is a little bit bigger. I'll expect dd2 to start using her own money for family presents (me, dp and dd1) when she's around 8 ish. I won't expect much, but a little bit of saving so you can be proud of buying a present yourself is a good think imo.

I haven't read the thread though, so you all might have moved on from there.

[Cherriesarelovely]

and it's not "smug" at all to say that you are pleased that your own children are polite and say thank you. I have been teaching for 15 years and I have yet to come across a child who is not capable of saying please and thank you.

[ArbitraryUsername]

I don't think the OP is simply pleased about anything. We seems much more concerned by how she's A Better Parent than anyone else her SIL.

[ArbitraryUsername]

She seems, not we seems.

I'm certainly not A Better Typer than, well, anyone!

[Dromedary]

To clarify again. My 8 year old receives approx £60 in present money (not from me) a year. She gets approx £25 in pocket money, and could make more than that if she wanted to. She also has the opportunity to earn the odd £5 in a fun job she does for somebody else.
The 10 year old gets more than that.
So let's say roughly £100 per year each.
Out of that they spend roughly £7 each on family presents. So it doesn't have to come from the gift money, it can come from pocket money or earnings.
I don't see that this is excessive or likely to lead to family breakdown in the future, as some of you are suggesting.
I have not said that the children owe me a present on my birthday because of all I do for them. Only that it seems right to me that if you have someone who does so much for you all year, you show a bit of appreciation by buying or making them a present on their birthday (or mother's day if you prefer that - isn't that the message children are always given around mother's day?). That's the basis on which children give their teacher a present at the end of the year, for instance. And yes, I think that that should be properly from them too.
The stuff about not charging for ingredients was because other posters had suggested that I charge them for craft materials if they made rather than bought presents.
I have just explained to my DDs that many people on Mumsnet think that they should be keeping all their money for themselves, rather than buying me a birthday present with some of it. Their response was:
8 year old: If we didn't buy you a present you'd have to buy yourself one out of your own money. That would be silly.
10 year old: Can you tell those people on Mumsnet that it makes me really proud to buy you a present out of my own money, and to see how happy it makes you.
I don't despise my nieces/their parents. But I do wonder how the way that they have been brought up has affected things for them, and have in some ways chosen to take a different course with my own girls. For instance they have always had a lot done for them, been praised a lot, not told off for behaving badly, got away with doing no schoolwork. With predictable results. I know their mum has some regrets now. I have made bad mistakes with my children and in no way think that I am the perfect parent. But I do think that encouraging them to give something that means something to them (eg spending money or effort) on others occasionally is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's nice to see that a number of others agree, and in particular that those who did this as children think that it was a good thing (except when they were expected to spend all their money on others, not 7% of it as in our case).

[imnotmymum]

Thanks Hully you see I guess the age thing that bothers me or just that my 9 year old is actually a spoilt selfish entitled brat who on receiving his Christmas money was to buy the entire stock of lego from Argos and I said oh save some for April when it is your DS bday would have gone "Mum seriuosly!!" My DD nearly 15 went off to Spain and bought some lovely gifts from the money we gave her .
BUt yes would be better off giving pocket money we thinks for EVERYTHING I fork out for ...did geta lovely necklace for Mothers Day dad slipped them the cash though !!

[Sirzy]

There is a big difference between children buying something because they WANT to and doing it because they are being forced to/told they have to.

Presents from children shouldn't be expected from any adult.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

£25 pocket money a year is less than 50p a week.

And brain washed children do tend to agree with their parents.

[NomDeOrdinateur]

I think that's ridiculous, if the children's annual "income" comes to as little as you indicate. I would be very upset to find out that my grandchild/niece/god-daughter etc had spent present money from me on a gift for somebody else - the money is for the benefit of the person to whom I choose to give it. In fact, if I found out about your arrangements I would sadly resort to asking the child what "thing" s/he wanted.

£25 per year in pocket money and the odd £5 here and there should be money for the child to enjoy by buying small luxuries like books, sweets and magazines (as opposed to the "big" gifts associated with Xmas and birthdays) - it's not enough for doing that AND buying presents and cards for multiple family members and friends.

My folks insisted that I didn't buy presents for them or for other family members until I was properly employed (age 16, although I was certainly pulling my weight before then in my mother's home business and helping my younger brother). I think that was the right choice - I always chose very thoughtful presents back when my parents were funding them and I still do, to the extent that I start searching for them about 6 months in advance and actually managed to render my dad (who's never usually that bothered about receiving gifts) speechless with the excellence of his most recent Xmas present .

[Dromedary]

I disagree, Sirzy. Just as I think that a child who chose to ignore mothers' day (despite all the hype they get at school and so on) would be being rude and unkind to their mother. I think that it is a part of parenting that you have reasonable expectations of your children, and communicate those expectations. But we can agree to disagree. If my children had a big issue over not wanting to spend the money, then of course I would address that. For instance if they really needed it for something else, or didn't want to give me a present because they were cross with me, or whatever. But I would like to discourage the idea that it is fine not to give someone important to you a present on their birthday simply because you would rather hold the money back to buy yourself sweets with.

[crashdoll]

Your 8 year old gets £25 in pocket money and she is expected to pay £7 which is not 7%. You shouldn't count her present money in that, that's her present!

At that age, I'd buy for my mum or dad out of my pocket money (of which I got more than your DD even almost 20 years ago!) but not for my friends.

[LadyPessaryPam]

Dromedary you are at the other end of the spectrum from the parents who spoil their children and over-indulge them. To my mind both ends are equally abusive and damaging to the well being and development of the children. There is a sane and loving middle path you know.

[imnotmymum]

There sis a child who ignores Mother's day and one who makes a card and rustles up Breakfast.Does not need a gift just hug and a snuggle and a DVD marathon.
OP did your children forget Mother's Day ...
And to reiterate one is 8...
£25 a year do not tell my kids that...costs more than that in dinner money a week

[Dromedary]

I don't think I can explain my position any more clearly than I have done. A good number of people have agreed with me, including most strikingly those who had a similar situation when they were children. I've tried hard to get my head round the argument that it's absolutely ridiculous that you expect your child to spend £5 a year out of their £100 a year disposable income on buying you a present at birthday and Christmas (when they of course receive vast numbers of presents). But my head simply indicates a wish to explode. I will therefore have to leave it there.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

OP you sound so materialistic. Present this, present that.

My childrens laughter is my present. Might sound cheesy but its true. I dont enter every situation in life wondering what I can get out of it.

They are magical beings. I dont need presents from them to make me feel happy, loved or to tell myself I am a good parent.

[FedupofTurkey]

And they should go out to work to earn it! Anyone got a chimney that needs cleaning ....

[Sirzy]

You are making this about you not them.

You seem to think you deserve some thanks for being a parent. You want to look good by your children handing over presents they have been forced to buy.

Sorry that's not a good thing to demonstrate to children. We have years of having to balance money and make sure that they have enough enough to cover everything with when they are so young they should only have to think about what they want to spend their money on no what you expect them to do with it.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

disposable income

it can come from pocket money or earnings

Sorry but this is ridiculous. They are CHILDREN. They do not have earnings or disposable income.

[imnotmymum]

OP just think about your last post. Go on read it. I am not being horrid but really a bunch of "flowers" picked from the garden would not mean as much as a present they had "bought with their disposable income".
Disposable income they are bloody kids!! Mine love it when Gran comes down and slings them a tenner so they hotfoot it Primark life is for living OP. I did ask earlier if you keep any birthday money back for other people ? Do you ?

[Bobyan]

"Disposable income" WTAF are you talking about? They are children, not investment bankers. That is all of their income!
They have £1.92 a week, including present money given to them for them to spend on themselves, and you class it as "disposable income"!

[imnotmymum]

and theoretically you buying yourself a present as pocket money comes from you... I am agog you are discussing this with a 8 and 10 year old "mumsnet thinks.."