To expect a teacher at parents evening to offer solutions as well as problems?

[Sticklebug]

Just returned from parents evening with DS (9). He is in Y4. So, the teacher starts with 'he loves learning, interacts well in class, has great ideas, doing really well in maths'. He is an avid reader and his comprehension is very good.

Then....However, he is doing really badly at writing. Sometimes he writes no more than a single paragraph in a 40 minute class. He is easily distracted and when asked why he has written nothing, he gives no real reason. His writing homework is of a high standard (4a-4b), but in his class work she would struggle to give him a 3b. She basically said that unless he starts to focus then he will not progress at all this year!

The teacher said that she has no idea what to do to get him to focus and was asking us for ideas! My DH asked what tactics she had already tried and she said that she 'hovers' near him at the start of the class to check that he starts. Her only other suggestion was that she could move him to a separate room on his own to get started.

I am at a loss. I am not a teacher or an educational specialist. I don't know what to do and I expect the teacher to offer some ideas - not basically say that there is nothing she can suggest!

So AIBU, and if I am, any ideas on how I can help my DS to focus more? He has said a number of times that he does not like writing, so I think that it is a lack of motivation rather than a lack of ability.

Yes, you get him to practise at home as often as possible. They don't have time in class to constantly practise as there's so much to learn but it's definitely something you can be doing at home.

Ask her if she has tried scaffolding, or using a writing frame. Is it a problem with thinking what to write or the physical effort of writing? How much does he write if he has a free choice of topic: my bedroom, dog, what I saw on TV? Is he any faster on a computer?

Sorry, no answers, but these would be the things I would tackle. ( Secondary English teacher).

I don't think there's anything wrong with the teacher asking you. You might not be a teacher or an educational specialist, but you are the expert on your own child, so it's reasonable that you might suggest something.

The teacher doesn't have a magic wand any more than you do unfortunately, and she has a class full of children, each with their own needs, to monitor.

When my ds was/is doing the not writing enough thing, his teachers and I would draw a dot on the page and tell him that he had to write up to that dot within a given amount of time. It definitely helps, but does tend to result in large, well spaced out handwriting!

Laurie - his homework is of a high standard, although I do sit him at the table with no distractions and make sure that he stays focused.

Rose - she has only tried 'hovering near him' at the start of class to ensure he starts writing. I asked specifically what else she had tried.

He writes loads on a computer and often will write ' books' without prompting - but where and when he wants to. Hence I think it is more a lack of motivation than ability.

He does say that his hand hurts when he writes and his handwriting is poor - although can be beautiful if he tries.

She needs to be getting him on board with his learning. Does he know what his targets are and what he needs to do to get better (what level he is and what he needs to do to get to the next level)? e.g (and this is just a simple one as I teach littlies) 'always begin a sentence with a capital letter' or 'use a variety of sentence openers'.

Hovering at the beginning isn't enough. She needs to give him a quantity target too and then revisit. I often did this when I taught older children. I put a green dot in the margin x number of lines down and told them that they had to write as far as that dot and I would be back in X minutes to check. I'd then work with my group for X minutes and then go back and check on the independent workers.

Clouds -I suppose that I was just disappointed that she had tried so few tactics...although to be fair I can think of no others, so maybe there is not a great deal that you can do with a boy who does not enjoy the act of writing.

My DH has suggested withdrawing his ipod (which to be fair he does not use often) until he makes more effort in class, but not sure this will help if the problem is that he simply does not enjoy ENglish...

The quantity target is a good one, and actually something that I do with his homework (although had not realised that I did before reading these replies). I suggest that he aims for 2 pages and he sometimes negotiates it down if his handwriting is small (it is very variable), but always achieves it,

He can do it, as he does it at home. Eeither he just gets distracted in class, or else he thinks about his homework in quiet moments, or he needs you to help motivate him.
I think you're in a better position to guess which is more likely than his teacher is, or come up with ideas way better than mine.

Bumperella - I am genuinely at a loss as to what to try. Could try rewards for good work at school? We will definitely do some more practice at home. and i will suggest a quantity target to his teacher.

Any teachers out there - does keeping them in at playtime help? Playtime is his favourite part of school

If you say he writes on a computer and writes his own little books, then the problem could be with the actual act of handwriting. Which is a problem I have had with my ds.

The only thing to really crack it has been handwriting practice. Just copying out rhymes and phrases is what made his hand stronger. I tried getting him to squeeze silly putty, squeeze pegs and do touch typing games in an attempt to get him to stop saying his hand hurt after writing, but he only really built up the stamina for handwriting from doing hand writing.

Agree she needs to give him a timer of some sort-boys often respond to competition of some kind. "How many lines do you think you could write in five minutes?" or " Bet you can't write five lines before the timer runs out."

Some sort of egg timer thing to spur him on?

Sore hand and poor writing need investigation... maybe he can be neat but it may take a huge amount of effort, which is why he doesn't do it all the time and writes better using IT. Has he tried rubber pencil grips or anything?

Is he having issues because of the background noise that is almost inevitable in a classroom? It's not unusual to have trouble focusing on a subject you don't like in a room full of (more interesting) distractions.

I spoke to him this morning and I focused on all the positives - reading, maths, ideas in class etc.

DS cannot give any explanation for his lack of focus (although clearly knew this would be raised by his sheepish attitude to 'how did parents evening go?'). We talked about whether it would help if the teacher put a target line on his page and he said it would, so he is going to suggest this at school today.

He says that his hand hurts and his shoulders ache when he is writing...

your sons education is your job too ( in the nicest possible way) the teacher was asking for parental input do some writing at home talk to him and try and offer a solution to the teacher after that say well we have tried it is over to the school to help

You obviously have insight into another side of your DS and his attitude to writing, such as that he is fine typing on a PC, so that's the sort of information your teacher was expecting you to share.

I would avoid punishments (taking his ipod away, keeping him in at playtime) until he "makes more effort", because it doesn't sound like he's wilfully not making the effort, he just finds it hard. He's telling you his hand hurts and that's significant. Does the school have an intervention group to support children with their handwriting or access to an OT so you can make sure his grip is right and comfortable for bigger bits of writing? Is there a TA who could sit with him or with a group to encourage him to structure things a bit better?

Oh, and just a suggestion, I would avoid having discussions about this in the morning before school. This is probably his least favourite time of the day, if he knows the "writing thing" is going to rear its head again at some point during the day. Focusing on positives is great, or even better don't talk about school at all, unless you have to check he's got his PE kit, etc.

I think the fact that he says it hurts is really important. Yes, you can build strength from handwriting by practising, but his grip and position need to be checked out, especially if he's left handed.

I can write with both hands, but left handed was trouble until I saw stuff on the web about correct position to ensure the writing was clear and comfortable. It's just as important with the right hand.

I'd say get his writing position and grip sorted and then try some of the other ideas like targets.

I think the fact that he says it hurts is really important. Yes, you can build strength from handwriting by practising, but his grip and position need to be checked out, especially if he's left handed.

this you can also get special grip pencils and pens from WH smiths and ELC dd2 had them in primary

Ds1 has trouble writing due to hypermobile joints causing him pain. We had parent teacher meetings recently and his teacher was brilliant. She hadn't been aware he was in discomfort (she's maternity cover for another teacher and I hadn't realised she hadn't been fully briefed). She said that now that she knew that she would try different approaches and suggested we try and get funding for a laptop.

She asked my advice but also gave loads of positive feedback and said she was going to research hypermobility and see if she could come up with some additional strategies.

If she had simply said 'i don't know what to do, what do you suggest?' I would have been bemused like you op. Whilst in happy to tell her what we do at home many of those strategies don't transfer to a busy classroom (supporting his hand, lots of breaks, etc) so what works for us is obviously unfeasible at school.

Is it possible your ds is struggling due to a physical cause? Could you get a referral to OT for him?

I imagine that she asked because his homework suggests that he works better at home than at school, as a teacher I would be wondering what happened at home to enable him to produce better writing. Parents know there children better than teachers, there is a lot of evidence to show that children make the best progress when parents and teachers work together.

I have to say I dislike it when teachers say things like "Child X is doing badly in this subject, therefore needs to work harder/focus more/spend more time revising at home" etc. It's not that I object to children working harder but to my mind if the child isn't learning effectively, maybe it's because the teacher isn't teaching effectively and they need to try something different.

I agree with this also. Writing should not be physically painful, if it is then there's a problem.

Poor concentration, poor handwriting, finds it hard/painful to write, bright, avid reader.... Sounds just like my son. How are his gross motor skills? Is he good at football? Can he ride a bike? Turns out my son is dyspraxic. If problems persist ask for assessment by an educational psychologist.