To ask you to help me decide which childminder?

[Spice17]

Am driving myself crazy trying to decide and you know when you say you don't know but you're secretly erring on one side? Well, that's not happening at all and I'm very torn.

Could you helpful mumsnetters let me know what you think I should do?

Childminder A Pros
Very close - 2 min drive, all back roads, so no stress and low petrol cost
Lovely big house
Nice lady, child I saw there seemed very happy
'Good' Ofsted
Does various local outings/activities
Doesn't charge for her hols/sickness
Cheaper than Childminder B but not by much

Cons
Have to provide a packed lunch and may have to pay a bit exra for more expensive activities
Says USUALLY takes hols during school ones but doesn't guarantee (and would need this really so that DM who works in a school can cover those times) But did say she knows of other CMs who may be able to cover.
Minimum of 6 hours per day (so on my half day would be paying for care I don't need)

Childminder B Pros
Husband and wife childminders (who seem lovely) so if one is ill, the other can cover
Lovely house
'Outstanding Ofsted'
Charge more than Childminder A but all food/activities included
Offered to pick up if car out of action of whatever
Only have maximum of 6 kids between them at any time
Seem to do lots of nice activities
Said they usually take all holidays during school ones (so DM could cover)
No minimum amount of hours (so could pick DD up straight after half day.

Cons
Further away and drive there in rush hour would be more challenging/stressful
They charge for their hols and sickness, so you basically pay all year round

I just CANNOT make up my mind and am getting in a real tizz about it. Obviously want what's best for DD and don't want to regret the decision. Worried that I'm putting too much emphasis on the journey taking her there (as this is what stresses me out at the moment) Can't read the Ofsted reports as no PDF/Word on my laptop. WWYD? TIA! :)

Indeed, indeed Betty.

I want to read the Ofsted reports on them now! Provide the details OP and we'll make a judgement on them for you save you reading them.

Though given Don'tCall, myself and Betty seems to all be in agreement about catalogues, I have a feeling can guess which way the decision is heading..

Agree with what others are saying about ofsted.

I know someone who has an outstanding rating from ofsted and there's no way I'd leave my dc there tbh.

Having seen and been the subject of numerous Ofsted inspections I would take them with a pinch of salt. They do highlight some serious issues, e.g. the childminder I knew whose inspection report included the fact that the children had free access to knives and alcohol. That is what they are useful for.

The people who get outstanding can be excellent but I know more than one who lost sight of the importance of cuddles, flexibility, recognising when the child needs to just sit and veg because they aren't feeling quite right, etc and became far too focused on producing paperwork to impress inspectors.

I have had really in depth arguments with Ofsted inspectors, early years advisors and other practitioners on the importance of meeting the needs of the child before the needs of the paperwork. I would rather have no planning and support a child who has just got excited over a bird in the garden than spend hours writing out complex and impressive paperwork plans then give the child an activity I decided three weeks ago he would enjoy today. I find it amazing to think that people still believe they can plan for a small child what they are going to learn each day.

Children need to see and choose interesting resources and then play alongside others and an adult who can make suggestions, ask questions and offer opportunities to expand their knowledge and understanding as well as be able to offer comfort and cuddles and quiet downtime.

Here, here Goldmandra. Very well put.

I know my CM has been a CM for longer than she cares to admit and she's just not computer literate and paperwork isn't her forte - and as you say, she is totally hands on and prioritises and understands the babies / child's needs rather than spending endless and needless amounts of time writing about whether the child has stood up unaided or used a walker for instance. The stresses and hoops she is expected to 'jump through' to please inspectors is beyond comprehensible sometimes, as she says, she'd never get to the park to play if she had to first complete the risk assessments she's meant to do. I also know of another CM who got 'criticised' for not having enough accidents reported in her accident book.. I know friends have used amazing unregistered CM's as many are now (perhaps of a certain age maybe) are tending to not be registered.

Personally, if I thought it was important to receive a written report at the end of the day about my DD's pooey nappies or there was a newsletter about what they'd done, I'd send her to a nursery.

Wow, this has honestly been SO helpful, thanks. Someone asked what my gut said (sorry, I skimmed through) and it's saying A. I was however thinking I was focusing too much on the small stuff e.g journey there and having to make lunch. Thought that I was being totally crazy to not be sure about the 'Outstanding' one but maybe my gut is right.

I want DD to be happy, feel secure and enjoy her time with a CM but I don't want her to see them as other parents or anything and A seems to fit that bill. B (outstanding peeps) have an 8 year old with them who won't leave as she loves them so much. I would personally probably feel upset by this as a parent!

BTW everyone says to me about the paying when CM is on hols/ill thing, I didn't have any previous experience so was unsure if the norm but most people I've mentioned it to thinks it's unreasonable.

Another thing in A's favour is as she is more local to you, she will potentially visit playgroups and toddler groups which may be attended by children who will eventually go to school/nursery with your child. Ofsted ratings are not the be all and end all - I agree with other posters - Some "outstanding" childminders I know of I wouldn't leave my dog with never mind my dc
ps None of the childminders I know in my area - and I know lots!! - provide lunch. Sometimes after schoolers get a snack ie slice of toast, fruit etc. to keep them going til hometime!

Offsted is a load of bollocks. I live opposite a childminder with Outstanding Ofsted and you wouldn't believe some of the things she does (one of which was using an electric mower to mow the lawn with one child pulling on her skirt and another flicking the cable out of the way!!). She also allows the children on the swings/climbing frame with no supervision.

Go with your instinct and ignore Ofsted.

I want DD to be happy, feel secure and enjoy her time with a CM but I don't want her to see them as other parents or anything and A seems to fit that bill. B (outstanding peeps) have an 8 year old with them who won't leave as she loves them so much. I would personally probably feel upset by this as a parent!

I'm sorry if this throws a spanner in the works but a close bond is exactly what you should want for your child. I have never felt anywhere near the bond with a childminded child as I have with my own but I have to say that those with whom I have a close affectionate relationship are the ones who have been happiest and thrived most in my care.

It is recognised that children need to develop deep attachements to all of their carers which is why all group settings are required to assign key workers to all children.

This close bond would in no way diminish your role or bond with your DD, in fact the fact that she was very secure in her relationship with her carer would support her other attachments.

Also lots of children have been reluctant to leave my setting at the end of the day. This is probably more to do with the timing of the parent arriving, having to leave enjoyable activities, being tired and feeling more able to express this to the parent, etc than it is to do with their emotional bond with me.

I hope that doesn't stress you out even more but I think it's important for you to understand that, just as you wouldn't love her any less if she had more siblings, she won't love you any less if she is close to her childminder

I pay my childminder 52 weeks a year. Whether I send the children or not, if she's on holidays and if she's sick. I think it's only fair. I get sick and holiday pay from my employer, why shouldn't she? In 3 years now she has never been sick (touches a big lump of wood) she just took one day when her MIL died.

I would go with option b.

Um. Actually, I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of anyone's opinion until I had paid both a second visit.

I would also look at the whole package that both are offering and see which works best for you. Don't get hung up on charging for holidays: look at how that compares with the other childminder and the services being offered by both. You may find that Team B offer much better value for money than Childminder A.

Yes, I've seen some who don't deserve their outstanding status. As someone who actually runs a playgroup, though, most of the people I've seen sitting doing nothing but gossip are good or satisfactory. One was inadequate. Only ever seen one outstanding childminder do that and she isn't a childminder any more. So, by that criteria, you'd be better off with an inadequate childminder
The truth is that there are childminders of all grades working with their children and ensuring they get the most out of playgroup.

Think of what you would want from a dream childminder, match it to what each is offering and work out where you'd be prepared to compromise.

I get that you're focusing on the practicalities here ... but what about how the cms will work with your child & your parenting style?

Which cm interacted more with your child/asked questions/seemed interested in them? How did they engage with their other charges whilst you were there?
What sense did you have of their overall style (relaxed, educational, fun loving...?) - agree with others that having a cm that is in line with your style makes things much easier.
What other children do they have - are there natural playmates for your dd?
What's their take on your parenting 'crunch' issues (eg. I hate tv on in the background, so how much tv per day was a key qu for me - what would be the things that would frustrate you?)
TAlk to parents of the children who are there - what do they think, what sort of child/ren do they think do best in that setting?

Those things would be much more important to me - although I certainly wouldn't dismiss easy to get to as well!

Good luck!

Oh, and definitely read those Ofsted reports!
That's an Early Years trained professional observing their minding for at least 4 hours - probably 7 hours for an outstanding. They'll have picked up on things you won't think to look for. It's an important input to your decision, even if you find you don't care for some of their points.
Why would you prefer the opinions of some anonymous posters on the internet who don't know you or your family and have never seen either childminder?

I'd go for B, however the sick pay thing may put me off...I pay my cm for a set amount of hols but not sick pay, that would worry me.

Go with your gut instinct.

I decided about my childminder due to her having no little ones of her own.

I put my son with someone who had a child of her own of the same age and DS was unhappy because the childminders own son was cared for better than mine.

(I know this because I ended up spying on her in the park)

Sorry Tanith but thats not strictly true.

My last inspection was 5 hours long. The inspector sat at my dining table for all of that time going through my paperwork whilst me and mindee were busy elsewhere. I wouldnt mind but I do the bare minimum required anyway so gawd knows what took her so long.

Even I had to laugh at the report - It was good but she couldn't possibly have known about half the things she had written from where she was sitting. And my experience is not unique!!!

I know it would be unusual if both of team B were ill at the same time but you could end up with no care and having to pay if they did and if one of team B was sick and the other well they could end up over their numbers as I am sure one adult to six little ones counts as over ratio.

Hippo.. Self employed people generally don't get paid sickness or holiday pay so it is different to being Employed by a company. I've never heard of a childminder charging for holidays and sickness.. Surely they just have their hourly rate to accommodate.

When I was looking for a childminder I went with my gut instinct and the main thing I really took notice of is how much they interacted with DD1 during the visit. It was also interesting to meet their kids to see how they'd been brought up.. How polite etc.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

I would also want to know the ages of the other children and their hours. I know of a couple of childminders who spend most of the day doing school drop off and pick up. Also pre-school drop off and collection, which doesn't leave much time in between for other stuff.

I'm amazed there are people paying CM's for being sick and taking holiday's.. I guess OP that's a decision you have to make. Personally think it's not an option I would go for.

Someone mentions care of their own child aswell as their mindees, personally, this is something I would also avoid- you don't mention whether they are caring for their own children at the same time ?

When do you have to make the decision by? Let us know what you go with!

Nokidshare, I agree you had a bit of a numpty inspector - I'm no fan of OFSTED, particularly since Sue Gregory's comments

It's still the case, though, that the inspector was better able to comment on your childminding than, say, I would be. That's really what I mean: it's a valuable input to the decision. You may disagree with what's said, but it is something concrete you have that you can discuss with the childminder.
One crucial piece of information in the reports is how many complaints, if any, have been upheld. You won't easily find that information anywhere else.

My CM charges for holiday and sickness but she's never taken a sick day in over 20 years!