to wonder if peoples definition of Chav/Chavvy varies greatly

[GirlOutNumbered]

This is a bit of a post about a post. Some one said that a girl in a barbour jacket would be chavvy. I have never, ever seen a Chav in a barbour jacket.

A chav down here is someone who wears a tracksuit most of the time and jeans with a polo shirt when going out on the town. The girls would wear tracksuit tucked into ugg style boots, the boys trainers.

Whats a chav where you are?

MrsLouisT - surely it depends on HOW you wear that jacket/wellies! I've been loving my non-bright barbour jacket for years (had it for 6 yrs) and I find it very functional and comfortable, but wear it simply with black or blue narrow jeans, it's all extremely classic (black short boots that are good for walking, which I do a lot of!) - no one in their right mind would call my style chavvy - they may think 'classic' or even boring, but short jacket and jeans suit me as I'm tall and slim, and more to the point I can't be arsed with skirts, heels or anything girly as a coat - I do not wear bling or cheap stuff, yet I'm not a rich country type, am a somewhat academic type. The jackets are very functional for town for those who like comfort and who are outdoors a lot - they are not a prerogative of the royals, i.e. 'only they' can look non-chavvy in these. I never saw a blingy chav (tracksuits, caps, chewing gum etc) wearing a dark padded barbour. Lola in Eastenders has a chavvy style, if anyone wonders. Lots of non-country chelsea/european middle class women wear thin padded barbours or similar, as they are classic, but always in neutral colours - they are not going to stop wearing them just because someone decided to copy/parody them, though it's news to me.
I've never seen anyone wear real wellies in cities though, unless they are bright colours and tongue in cheek.

To me, a chav is Wayne and Waynetta from Harry Enfield. I think I may well have met one or two folks in my time who were similar and that's who I'd identify as "chav" but I have been away from the UK for a few years and may well be completely out of touch with reality.

I get really annoyed with people saying it's an offensive term to keep working class people in their place. I'm from a working class background but I was a bit of a swot, paid attention at school, went to college and then uni (first person in my family to do that) under the old grant system. I've got a reasonably paid job now and live half a mile from a "chav" estate. My grandparents consisted of a mechanic, a cleaner, an electrician and a typist: all of them working class; none of them chavs.

We used to say townie or scally when I was younger. Being a chav is a state of mind and it's a certain type of person who is obnoxious, disrespectful, thinking the world owes them something just for being born, claiming benefits, not working or contributing anything useful to society and generally being unpleasant. I know people that I went to school with who have several kids with different fathers, have low-paid jobs and wear Barbour jackets but I wouldn't call them chavs.

chav is definitely NOT a synonym of 'working class', it's indeed the attitude as you say, and a deliberately 'cheap and blingy' dress sense, caughtinagiggle.

Its just a cliche, isn't it - like any other.

fgs real barbours are not cheap, how would a person on benefits afford it even? working classes are not the same as 'the poor', look at plumbers/builders!

So you wear a certain jacket or style of top and it impacts on your attitude towards life and makes you behave badly.

Wow that's a clever garment.

I get the impression chav is now used, by horrid people, as a catch-all term for anyone they deem socially beneath them.

Clothing trends and living choices don't seem to come into it any more.

I wouldn't say that Okay - no one would call someone of lower social statusor income 'chavvy' if that person was modestly but attarctively dressed, or just in shabby clothes, or non-descript, it has to be the 'in your face' bad style (and often two fingers) to be called that!

Allaflutter You've obviously never studied with boys who went to Eton. I'm by no means a chav, what with my phd and all, but at undergraduate level those boys were convinced I was a chav because I'd had free education.

I did say horrible people - not all! And not us nice lot :)

Being a chav is a state of mind and it's a certain type of person who is obnoxious, disrespectful, thinking the world owes them something just for being born, claiming benefits, not working or contributing anything useful to society and generally being unpleasant.

But then arrogant, charmless individuals in the upper and middle classes (wander through the city of London at lunchtime and you will see all those qualities in buckets. Prince Philip and other members of the Royal family could fit that description to a tee, yet they are not labelled with the pejorative term 'chav.' Remember we all claim benefit at some time in our lives.

Anyone who claims there isn't a class based element in the deployment of the word 'chav' is kidding themselves. It is used to marginalise elements of the working class based on the way they look/dress. Why shouldn't they want to wear designer labels? There's enough Mumsnetters getting all excited about Boden or the White Company or which brand of 100 quid wellies are en vogue with 'real' country people, it is the same label fetishism in evidence just over different brands with different meanings attached.

Okay - never studied with Etonians, no but that's a mis-usage. They are such a small percentage that their spin on the word doesn't count, ha! majority wouldn't use it like that, you were unlucky. So many upper class kids are plain thick that I wouldn't worry too much of what they say/think, definitely don't take it personally.

allaflutter Oh no I don't take it personally at all! But I'm living at university doing another degree, and it becomes your whole world! De-railing the thread here but I'm state schooled and proud!

Compos that's uncanny, I was just going to say that these upper class kids could be even more rude and obnoxious - makes it a lot worse as they are priviledged and KNOW good manners but choose to disregard - seen them throwing stuff around in a restaurant like the 3yr olds and being loud - spoiled everyone else's dinner!

are most of then doing well at studying though, Okay? do they call you chav to your face - you must think of a comeback!

Compos I didn't mean claiming benefits in itself is a problem; I've claimed benefits on more than one occasion in my lifetime. The problem is more the sense of entitlement, not using the benefits for what they are intended, which is as a safety net to catch you when you fall on hard times and to help you pick yourself back up again.

I think the OP asked what is the definition of chav where you are. For me, as someone who has a working class background, I object to a certain type of person, that I would call a chav, townie or scally, being referred to as working class. For me, you have to actually work to be classed as working class (and before I get bombarded, I appreciate some people may have lost their jobs through no fault of their own in the current climate, I'm not talking about genuinely honest people who've fallen on hard times, I'm talking about those people who won't work or who aren't bothered by a bit of casual criminal activity to "earn" their living).

I always thought chavvy meant being someone who doesn't want to work and expects the taxpayer to fund their lifestyle. Its not about clothes or cars but about attitude. Fashions come and go. I don't like the Barbour trend,but at the moment my dd generally wears leggings with shiny runners,and a cream bomber type jacket. Its just fashion and if someone judges her for it then shame on them.

oh
my god, I've worn trackies AND uggs, it doesn't mean I steal bikes,
sell drugs and hurl abuse at passers-by while standing outside local
offlicence swigging Lambrini from the bottle! It's a behaviour, not a
dress sense.

Words have different connotations in different parts of the country.

As much as you won't like it, 'chav' is very 1990's round these 'ere parts - and widely replaced with 'pikey' - which doesn't necessarily have traveller connotations.

As in 'he's such a pikey' (Which would mean typifying the bling culture, over load of soverign rings, gold jewelry, pants round the knees, backwards baseball cap, spray tan and gel wraps) as opposed to 'he is a pikey' (which could probably mean traveller, but we tend to call travellers, umm travellers!).

FWIW - working class means neither chav nor pikey! Traditional working class ethic is anything but the culture of entitlement

I grew up in the NE where Chavs are called Charvas as a couple of people have pointed out.
It wasn't exactly a term used as an 'abuse of the underclass' but a way of describing a certain look and attitude and other characteristics.

Look: (bearing in mind I grew up in 80s/90s)

Men: tracksuits and other sports gear with gold chains, earrings, big trainers, very short hair greased forwards, caps, pitbulls

Women: bad highlights/perms, tatoos, gold, 2-3 rings on every finger, multiple earrings, lots of make up, orange face and everything else white, (pre spray-tan era) pitbulls, inappropriately revealing clothes.

I never saw a Charva in designer gear in the NE.

Attitude: this was quite important: aggressive, often bullies at school, 'cool' to be poor and underachieve at school, hatred of anyone 'rich' 'posh' or a 'swot', hanging around in gangs, fighting, missing school, lots of smoking, sex, alcohol and drugs at a young age.

Characteristics
Very, very broad local accent. Little respect for authority. Tendency towards football hooliganism.

Overwhelmingly they did live on council estate (accused of being a posh fucker otherwise) and were of a lower socio-economic group.

However, the attitude was a huge part. A non-obnoxious, non-aggressive person who looked/dressed like a Charva and had a low income / lived on council estate wasn't automatically one. A Charva wasn't given as a label to just anyone it was quite a specific blend of characteristics.

When I moved to London I noticed the term Chav used far more broadly and to people that wouldn't be considered a Charva. Designer-clad Chavs also common.

I've lived overseas for 8 years and they don't really have chavs here. I am often asked to describe what one is.
They do have different local equivalents though, which I struggle to understand fully. Again, it's a combination of fashion, income, attitude.

"Being a chav is a state of mind and it's a certain type of person who is obnoxious, disrespectful, thinking the world owes them something just for being born, claiming benefits, not working or contributing anything useful to society and generally being unpleasant."

I think that is true but I think Compo is also right in that there is a missing element - class.

It describes an 'underclass'. The inherited wealth lot would be what I've heard referred to as the 'hooray henrys'. To be a 'chav', the difference is indeed wealth and class. It seems though that you can have money and be a 'chav', but it must be 'new' money. you can't be a chav with inherited money.

It's a dreadful word, it really is. It seems loaded with judgement and sneering.

We are, as a nation, obsessed with class.

My husband, who is not british but is from a tribal culture, actually compared it to India's caste system.

That's how it comes across to him. Class is caste by another name. you're born into it, you can't change it, it shapes who you are and how others treat you.

I don't know whether he is right or wrong but it's certainly an interesting point of view.

Always used to be a "blad" here in s wales (based on "alright blad") but "chav" has taken over, possibly as its become a bigger thing with TOWIE etc??

And imo it is a look and attitude, no different to emo as posted upthread.

Though yes, there are those who use it as a derogatory catch-all term for anyone they deem beneath them

I agree with other posters on here its more of a attitude and ti some extent a description of behaviour as opposed to dress.
I also dont see how its used to keep the working class down as in my opinion there is nothing wrong with being working class. I am from a working vlass family and area and was the first person in my family to go to uni.

I think its perhaps used to describe what i see as an underclass and used by people to deascrive some people who belong to this class.

That's interesting holly pikey is used greatly around here and only refers to people of the travelling community or anyone who needs a wash.

We had noticed that our ten year old has started using the term gypsy when putting someone down.

Don't know if this is true but I was told chav stood for council house and violent. Incidently I grew up in a council house and those 2 do not necessarily go to together. Horrible term.