rental deposit

[QuietTiger]

Need the collective wisdom of MN here please.

My elderly PIL were renting an unfurnished flat. They were served with a notice 21 to quit, because the owner of the flat wanted it back to sell. That's fine, these things happen, PIL found a new rental property and subsequently moved. Whilst they were in the process of moving (there was a month where PIL rented both old property and new property, IYSWIM), the agents insisted they could show people round the flat. I told them to sod off and to wait until PIL had moved out - agents got stroppy, we stuck by our guns and refused to let them show people round, as they were failing to notify PIL when they were coming, turned up unannounced, and basically had my elderly PIL stressed out.

Before we handed the keys on the old property back, DH and I spent a full day cleaning the flat from top to bottom and paid a professional company to steam clean the carpets (which was not in the original rental contract). I then took pictures of the clean flat. The cleaning, included cleaning EVERYTHING in the kitchen, defrosting and cleaning the fridge and freezer and cleaning the oven, as well as scrubbing the inside of cupboards, cleaning all the skirting boards, washing curtains, the lot. As DH & saw it, the place was spotless. and a hell of a lot cleaner than when PIL got the keys to move in

FIL has just rung me to tell me that the agents that manage the flat have rung him and have verbally told him they are refusing to return the rental deposit because there is 1) grease on the cooker door (the cooker was clean) and 2) limescale in the toilet (the toilet was clean apart from the limescale which wouldn't come off). I have told FIL to tell them to put it in writing. while I source the collective wisdom of MN

AIBU to write back to the agent once we get the letter detailing "what is wrong" and tell them to sod off, then take it to the deposit protection people?

Please could someone give me some advice? The issue is not about the fact that PIL had to move, that's neither here or there, it's about the fact the agents appear to be difficult and seem to be looking for reasons to keep the deposit.

Advice anyone?

They always try this on at the end of a rental period. Write and tell them you dispute their claims, you have photographs. Tell them you will take it to the TDS (ask them which scheme the deposit is in).

I hate greedy Landlords.

The deposit should be in a proper scheme and the usual terms of a contract state that the property should be returned in the same condition as the beginning of the tenancy - and this should be backed up by an inventory detailing everything. The deposit does not cover fair wear and tear, so I can't see any way in which they can justify keeping it. Can you contact the CAB for your parents?

I really hate letting agents for precisely this sort of reason.

First of all, they can't keep back the whole deposit, only the part of the deposit that is in dispute. So I suppose it would be fair to say, maybe £40 cleaning fees could be held back but the balance should be paid back ASAP. When I had a similar dispute I called the Deposit Protection People, they told me that I had a case worth mounting, and informing the LL of this was enough to get the LL to back down. I suggest calling the Deposit Protection People, and getting their advice but definitely don't get worried that they will keep back the whole deposit, they won't be allowed to do that unless they can prove it will cost the whole deposit to clean the toilet and cooker!

Is the deposit in a protected scheme?

If it isnt, the agents are breaking the law.

They cannot withold deposit because of limescale in the loo - this is wear and tear, and some grease on a cooker.

Any claim against the deposit should go through the deposit holding scheme, and it would be up to them to mediate with your dad.

Ask for a copy of the inspection report. They will need to provide one for BOTH before and after your PIL's tenancy - if there was limescale on the loo in the loo at the beginning of the tenancy your PILs are not responsible for making sure its gone at the end. If it is as you say, then the deposit protection people won't give them the money.

They are just trying it on, and if you have photographs to prove it. It might be a little stressful, but you shouldn't have a problem with getting the money back.

They can't outright refuse; they can open a dispute with the 'deposit protection scheme' (or whichever scheme your pil deposit is held with).

Do you have dates and times on your pictures and receipts for the cleaners etc and do you have pictures from when you moved in? The agents can be arsey and try to drag it out but they will need to provide proof the house wasn't in a fit state. FYI grease on a cooker wouldn't affect your deposit anyway save the cost of a cleaner - which you already have provided.

In all honesty I think they're trying it on. You can include them showing up unannounced at the house in your dispute as a way they have broken the contract too.

On a side note was all the legal requirements regarding the deposit fulfilled by the agency when your pil moved in? As if they weren't the agency won't have a leg to stand on xx

Hi

You should have an inventory when PIL first moved in, and my understanding is you leave it as found as per the agreed inventory when moved in.

In addition I'm not sure how long PIL have been there but they are allowed 'wear and tear' over time, so for example carpets were new when they moved in but after 5 years LL can not claim back on carpet against deposit.

You can offer to go back and clean/put right what they claim is wrong so the whole deposit comes back to you or PIL

The deposit should be in a protected scheme so you can dispute this, in addition you are quite within your rights to stop/decline viewings when still at the property in addition you have to write and give notice to advise if the agent/workman is going to come on to the property - it would appear your agent didn't do this.

Hope this helps

P

YANBU - they cannot withold giving your PIL back the deposit for those trivial things...that comes down to wear and tear!

Yes go through the deposit holding scheme.

Thank you folks - advice much appreciated.

Your PILs deposit should be held in a deposit holding scheme - if it isn't off to the small claims court (where you will win, it is a legal requirement that they hold it in a scheme to prevent the landlords/agents treating the deposit as a nice little bonus at the end of the contract.)

The letting agents in my last place tried it on and claimed that 'deep cleaning' (whatever the fuck that means) was needed before it could be let again and they would be keeping our deposit.

We sent photos documenting the state of the flat when we moved in - filthy dirty, evidence of pre-existing damage etc. etc. and asked for a receipt for this 'deep clean' that allegedly cost the thick end of £300.

No response.

We then went to the Tenancy Dispute Service, submitted paperwork and whatnot. The Letting Agents didn't send any evidence to the TDS or hand over the deposit to them despite being part of the scheme. We won the case by default.

Do your PILs have an inventory when they checked in? This is a key document - if the Landlord doesn't have it, or detailed photographic evidence of the state of the property when he let it to your PILs he will find it very hard to prove anything.

Firstly, you need to find out what kind of tenancy your PIL had. If it was an assured whitening tenancy (most tenancies are this but you need to check) then the deposit should have been registered with a deposit protection scheme and your PIL should have been given a registration certificate. Just not being given this certificate would mean that you PIL could take the agent to court for up to three times the amount of the deposit.

As for the deductions, the onus is on the agent to prove that the flat has not been left in the state that it was given to your PIL, as the deposit money still legally belongs to your parents. They absolutely cannot keep the whole of the deposit for a few minor cleaning issues (limescale in a loo is not wear and tear, but the agent would have to prove that it wasn't there when your PiL moved in). Did your PIL have an inventory and sign a schedule of condition? If not, the agent had no proof and your PIL should demand the whole deposit back straight away.

HTH but feel free to PM me if the agent gets difficult / it gets stressful.

Thank you Marcheline. I may take you up on that.

I've instructed FIL (just now, actually!) to go to the letting agents and get 1) Their issues with the state of the flat when he left, in writing 2) Details of the Deposit scheme their deposit is in and 3) a copy of the inventory/schedule of condition for when they moved in.

We're keeping our powder dry until we have all the info. we need - then we'll nail the agents, because I feel very strongly about this because I spent hours and hours cleaning that fucking flat and I hate cleaning. Unfortunately, MIL has dementia and FIL has never dealt with stuff like this, plus they are elderly and get worried over the smallest most simple things, so they are easily bamboozled by official looking bits of paper etc.

We'll see. FIL has gone away looking much happier now he thinks we have a plan.

"assured whitening tenancy" Sorry but Epic auto correct fail I assume!

Maybe they were counting on the fact that your ILs are as you've described - a bit confused by the procedure or willing to roll over because they don't have the experience to deal with this.

Hopefully the fact that you have asked for all the official bits and pieces will be enough to make THEM roll over.

Good luck OP, this kind of thing makes my blood boil. Bastards.

this kind of thing makes my blood boil. Bastards

I'll second that!

yes Quint, epic fail - assured shorthold tenancy!