to think tackling obesity by sending people to the back of the NHS queue is bonkers?

[ICBINEG]

I have been obese. When you are obese you know perfectly well the damage you are doing, you know the extra hassle it entails on a day to day basis, you know the humiliation, you know that you aren't doing justice to your kids, and you know you are going to die early, and be ill and in pain.

I had all the motivation in the world to change.

What difference is it supposed to make that the NHS are preparing to treat the obese like second class citizens, if the motivation of an early painful death and missing their kids growing up isn't enough?

The actual net result of not treating the injuries of people who are obese is that there will be yet another hurdle to them getting back on their feet and being able to exercise etc.

AIBU to think this plan is a massive fail that utterly misses the point of why people don't change their lifestyles?

Will smokers, alcoholics, those that take illegal drugs, those that go on foreign holidays or engage in extreme sports be treated the same way? Probably not.

There is that too...

I think obesity is a somewhat unique 'lifestyle' issue however, as so much of the problem is tied up in self-esteem.

Treating people with self-esteem issues as second class citizens in an attempt to shame them into change?

What could possibly go wrong with that?

You're not taking care of your health though, so why should you be treated before a person who has done their best to stay healthy?

Obesity is a medically relevant factor in how some injuries are treated.

There is little point in fixing say a joint if it is under such excessive stress from additional load that it's a nigh on certainty that it will fail again in a short period of time.

What does this relate to?

I agree with the OP. I am overweight but the only medical treatment I've needed is a) during childbirth b) when I was 7 and needed stitches in my knee after falling over in the playground. I have had about 3 sick days in the last 5 years and lead a useful existence and pay my taxes and NI contributions like the good citizen I am.

My son's PE teacher is younger than I am and is off school for 6 months AGAIN for his SECOND hip operation. He is not overweight, leads a very active lifestyle and .... his body is falling apart, probably due to all the exercise he takes.

So come judgement day, why is he costing the NHS more money yet I am the one who is villified?

As someone has already said there are many medical treatments that are rendered pointless by obesity, there is also a far higher risk of dying under gA, hence why many operations are delayed so that the person can lose weight.

The vast majority of healthy-weight active people do not cost the NHS money. Your example is not at all representative.

callisto what does 'done their best' mean?

Some people need to apply zero effort to remain a healthy weight. Should they get a medal too?

Others could be scrapping tooth and nail to get to healthy weight and fail. So we should kick them as well?

Of course if it is medically indicated to wait, as scaevola suggests, then fair enough. When I went to the doctor's to have a cyst removed they told me I had to do a course of antibiotics first to get rid of infection. This wasn't punishment, just doing the best thing under the circumstances.

But callisto's post presupposes that obese people are somehow unique in not taking care of their health. Do we know this?

Quite likely my high BP is caused by stressing- should the system detect this and penalise me? Ds isn't eating enough fruit- if his flu had turned to pneumonia should he be treated? What about people who do sport? Or people who slump in front of the telly but never get fat because of their particular metabolism?

When my dd took an overdose earlier this year, she was treated by the hospital though there was absolutely no doubt that she had failed to take care of her health on that occasion. But if the medicals who saw her manage to turn her round, as we hope, that is maybe 50 years of contributions that society can get out of her- and future hospital visits avoided, further breakdowns among her family members avoided. If they had refused to treat her, they might have ended up treating her little brother instead or me or dh. Ill health spreads like rings on the water.

Callisto don't they?

My friend - normal weight - sees a pyschiatrist and GP weekly, on a cocktail of drugs.

My flatmate, normal weight, spends on average 10 weeks a year in hospital.

Friend, normal weight, requires nhs treatment for asthma caused by fags

Friend required a lot of NHS treatment after shaving her nipple pff when blind drunk

Friend, normal weight, requires a lot of treatment for drug use..

Sister, normal weight, requires extensive nhs treatment for multiple illnesses

Mum, normal weight, requires extensive nhs treatment for disabilities.

I could go on?

Just as giving up smoking is not equally easy for all people, so maintaining a healthy weight is not equally easy for all people.

IF you are naturally skinny and don't have to watch what you eat, you already have a far easier life than someone battling pcos etc. and now you want to get priority on GP appointments too?

Ironically, extreme thinness is associated with some chronic disorders which cost society heavily in terms of medical treatments. Both my children are thin and dd has been very expensive for the taxpayers.

To clarify, dd is thin for exactly the same reason as she is chronically ill and disabled: it is part of the same set of symptoms. So does she deserve that medal?

Is this a new NHS policy that looks like it's coming in or something?

If it's a blanket policy, it sounds unfair (and possibly more expensive in the long run, depending on what treatments are needed) - but if it's related to specific things like surgeons not wanting to do surgery under GA because of the higher risks, it's not about 'punishing' obese people.

If it's a blanket policy on all treatment though, I agree that other people who don't take proper care of their health - i.e. smokers, alcoholics, people taking illegal drugs, and so on, should also be sent to the back of the queue.

Delaying treatment to improve the outcome is already done and not what todays bullshit was about.

The specific thing that annoyed me was the reference to getting preferential GP appointments.

Link?

Oh it was some think tank shit.

On radio 4 this morning just before 9.

Basic premise is that people who have 'looked after themselves' should get priority on minor treatments and GP bookings as a 'reward'.

I imagine one of the commonest causes of ill health is putting too much salt on your food. Leads to high BP and heart disease and all sorts. So how on earth do you prove that? Or are salt eaters somehow worthier than fat eaters because it doesn't show?

Have I missed something OP? Can you link to a news report?

I agree with you, though. The NHS shouldn't get into deciding who is worthy of treatment, and who is unworthy. Wasn't it set up for free health care for all?

Having said that, scaevola has a point about the hip operations, is there currently any discretion for that sort of thing?

It's fat fascism. You wait (or weight.. geddit?) - fat people will be told next that they cannot breed otherwise they will produce fat people. This is fat eugenics.

Being the daughter of European Jews who escaped in 1938 when the rest of their family wasn't quite so lucky, I can say this.

Am logging off before Mumsnet boots me out.

Here's who else should be sent to the back of the queue:

• anyone who has smoked, ever
• anyone who has spent any period of their life ever not exercising
• anyone who has ever drunk more than 14 units per week or who has ever binge drunk
• anyone who has driven over the speed limit
• anyone who has taken a risk to cross a road or run for a train
• anyone who does not eat 5 a day every single day
• anyone who is sad and therefore does some of the above
• anyone who has ever had unprotected sex
• anyone who has a baby over 35 when they know the risks perfectly well
• anyone who has a baby under 20 " " " "

Why on earth should the NHS be made fit for people. It should be made fit for moralists only. How dare people be human and expect other humans to give a shit?

There are some treatments that will not be effective due to obesity.
However, I think more talking therapy and cbt should be implemented in treating obese people with low self esteem.
I find that a lot of people who are obese (myself included) know how to lose weight but have mh issues surrounding why they find it difficult to sustain weight loss.
I do not need a diet sheet, I need to talk about how to minimise and cope with the effects of my abusive childhood, which also included being starved.
But no one wants to hear or acknowledge that, far easier to explain it away by presuming I am a lazy slob.

hmmm doesn't seem to be followed up as a news article yet. That is odd.

Maybe the think tank have thought again

confusteling sorry!!! But you friend SHAVED her nipple off?? Jesus Christ!

Sorry op.... But that stood out to me!