To have found this depressing?

[CoffeeMum]

I was on a bus today, without the DC for once. A man got on with three preschool children, and by the time he got off, a few stops later, he was the toast of the bus. There was much cooing, and aah-ing, and many questions about his children, whether he had any more etc etc. I heard enough to be sure that he was the father of all three children.

Now, i'm sure he's a fabulous father, and the ladies on the bus forming this impromptu fan club were of an 'older generation' - I hope I can describe them as such without offence to anyone? - and seemed delightful and well meaning. I suspect to many of them, it is genuinely a novelty to see a Dad out and about with children - especially as many as three.

But I was utterly depressed by this display, I have to say. I saw ALOT of mums out and about with their children and their buggies. Not one of them appeared to be receiving a jot of attention - including the two other mums on the same bus with their babies.

Don't get me wrong - I have received kind looks, words, the occasional compliment about my children when out and about. But nothing like this. My mother is also guilty of thinking a man is a marvel if he takes his children out single-handedly.

I appreciate that I need to accept that this is the older generation with an attitude that will soon fade out. It just makes me sad to think of all of us Mums working hard, just getting on with it, getting credit here and there, but nothing like this kind of acclaim

I appreciate that I need to accept that this is the older generation with an attitude that will soon fade out

No, it isn't necessarily the older generation. I always used to seethe when men left meetings in order to pick up their children from school (or wherever) and were given a rousing accolade for being such wonderful and involved fathers. I'm not saying they weren't wonderful fathers but I know that if a woman had started meetings with apologies about leaving early to collect children the response was much more likely to be mutterings about "disorganised women who couldn't organise child care properly".

It's fucking annoying. One day it might stop happening. But I often wonder just when that day is going to dawn.

YANBU but you also can't really blame them, I think. It does take a while to change attitudes. Also look on the bright side: at least they were supportive and not muttering "bloody pansy" or similar under their breath. The fact that a man on a bus with three children is regarded as cause for celebration shows we have made some progress. In a large number of countries it would be seen as a sign of weakness.

My brother is a single parent of two girls. He used to get this all the time and it drove me mad. That is until I found out that there were parents who wouldn't let their kids go to his house for tea because there was no woman in the house.

I can't see the problem. Nice old ladies being nice to nice man with nice children.

No, this man doesn't need extra credit for looking after his own children, but women don't need credit for looking after their children either. So when it happens it's nice, when it doesn't, it's a non issue.

My brother (newly single dad) gets this all the time, and is sometimes a bit unsure over how to handle all the cooing, but it boosts his confidence no end. I would never begrudge him or any other dad that.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable. You must understand that men and women are different and consequently have different skills, so when a man accomplishes a skill that women do well, then its a fair cop that he should be congratulated. Im sure women get it all the time too eg when they do well in a male dominated environment, park a car well, drink a pint of lager in one go etc. I think, in the end it evens itself out.

Thing is zippey, it seems to me that when a woman does 'do well in a male dominated enviroment', they simply DON'T get the same kind of credit that a man would, being seen to do something traditionally 'female' like childcare [if you can call looking after your own children as 'childcare']. I can think of a million examples [well, not a million, but you get the idea ] of women who are struggling to juggle going out to work - traditionally the 'male role', with the demands of children and family life.

As Pandemoniaa says above, the man leaving the meeting to pick up his kids is a 'great dad', while a woman doing the same would probably get critical looks and/or comments. When I went back to work after maternity leave, I was under official constant supervision to ensure that I was fulfilling the demands of my job properly - funnily enough, they found that I never put a foot out of line...

quesadilla - interesting point about the fact it was seen as positive for a Dad to be out with his kids, that is absolutely a Good Thing, of course. As some of you have said, anyone getting positive feedback for their parenting deserves it, and I want to see all parents getting the same credit.

And as for the single Dads mentioned - well, I have come to learn that I regard all single parents with awe and admiration. I am so impressed at the parents who are doing it all on their own. So I would generally never begrudge them the praise, and i'm genuinely thrilled if it's a confidence boost.

But that's the thing - you see Dads getting it ALOT [my own DH has experienced it when out with our own DC, or when he takes them into work], and Mums getting it, well, never really. And i'd be willing to bet that the single Dads get alot more praise and support than the single Mums....

Sorry, forgot to say autumnmum, I am very sorry to hear that your brother experiences that kind of narrow minded attitude from fellow parents. That's really shit. I bet he's a great Dad

I found this with DS, from when he was a new born. Mum takes pram on walk, no eye contact, bugger all interest. DH take pram for walk - people stopping him in the street to cc, chatting to him in shops about how refreshing it is to see a dad with a pram we don't live in the dark ages really, promise!

Even now, and DS is 3, he still gets positive comments when DS and he are out and about together - DH is a PT SAHD.

I don't begrudge him the comments, because DS can be hard to handle for whole days at home, but it would be nice to be appreciated sometimes as his mum.

people stopping him in the street to cc,??

people stopping him in the street to coo, sorry

I have certainly noticed the massive praise and approval DH gets from both DM and DMIL when he cooks...I find it a bit weird, but at least it pleases them! I think it is a bit patronising to praise men for looking after their own children, but as someone said above, positive is betterthan tutting.

Zippey

Hmm. Well, if I go on the bus or train with my 3dc then I get comments of how well I'm doing/brave (!) etc and often asked about them. And my dc are 12, 9 and 5yo now. And offers to help if I've got bags etc.
And I'm female...

Dh loves to make sure he cooks cakes to take into work on his birthday... and I still get comments on how nice my cakes were

I had a bit of a rant when people congratulated my husband for giving up smoking when I was pregnant, as though he had done it as a favour to me. I gave up smoking, drinking, delicious cheese, shark (admittedly I only wanted it when they said I couldn't have it) and runny eggs, but he gets a pat on the back for giving up a habit which was harmful for ALL of us.

I bet a lot of women would be pretty pissed off if they got extra praise and "cooing" for doing a well in a "normally male dominated environment". Wouldn't you feel like that was condescending?

Is parking a car well really considered a male dominated thing Zippey? I'd find it enormously patronising if I got told well done for that.

I don't know if it counts as flip side to the OP, but I'll quite often hoist DS2 (2 & half yrs) onto my shoulders if he's being difficult on the walk to school and that gets quite a bit of praise in the form of 'that looks fun', including from older men (who I assume may have done that as a dad in years gone by). DS2 wearing his horned viking helmet and shouting directions to me may add to the overall funness of it.

It is a bit depressing but this is how society changes, if it is publicly applauded that men are taking their children out then more do it and it becomes the new normal.

YANBU

I also hate the phase 'hands on Dad' I mean surely you are a Dad or you're not? You would never hear anyone being referred to as a 'hands on Mum'.

MIL recently asked me if DP was going to be 'babysitting' DD for an upcoming night out. And when I said yes* she clapped and laughed

*I actually said "nobody is babysitting, she will be at home with DP".

Pisses me off no end!

Yanbu, dh and I laugh at "hero dad" syndrome all the time.

I know plenty of men who can't park a car and leave their Audis parked 2 ft off the kerb.

No one has ever complimented me on my lager drinking skills.

I don't tend to compliment strangers on their parenting, whether they are male or female. May be I should start saying 'thank you for not letting your children irritate me'.

Glad it's not just me then!

PurpleBlossom, i'm a relaxed sort in general, but if my MIL applauded on hearing that her son was 'babysitting' his own children, I would not be held responsible for my actions i'm afraid. Good on you for putting her straight.

I shall try to look at the postives - there are Dads out there, visibly doing what they should be doing, and this will normalise it.

Thanks for letting me vent though

coffeemum - I just think its a bit sad to find a happy positive thing depressing, Fair enough if it were a man being slagged off for taking his children out, or a woman being angry because a dad was out with his kids himself. I would find those two scenarios depressing.

I'm with you coffeemum. Being fussed over for doing something he should be doing in the first place. My neighbours don't stand outside and give me a round of applause when I take the bin out. Yet DH gets loads of praise for 'helping' with DS, specifically 'giving me a break' while I've been pregnant. He doesn't get it either - he loves being a dad.

youthecat I've had praise for being able to down a pint of bitter in one. I secretly enjoy it

I find this quite a misogynistic sexist country (grew up in Holland) and this sort of thing is one of the reasons why. I don't think treating men like little emperors does society any good.

Zippey I actually found your post hilarious, but it kind of make me think of attitudes to women in Muslim countries where women actually are considered less capable of normal everyday things. Would you mind if I forwarded it to my Dutch friends, as its quite an unusual post?

I chat to men with children because they are a damn sight more friendly than random women, who look and if you try to be friendly.