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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu....or am I the boss from hell?

71 replies

Emmon · 06/03/2013 18:35

I run an office cleaning company and have been doing for 11 months. Obviously I am new to being an employer and will openly admit that I have a lot to learn when it comes to managing cleaners.

2 weeks ago one of my staff, who generally does an excellent job, had to put his dog to sleep for health problems. He asked for the day off which I gave him and went in myself to clean the site but as he had taken the key to the cleaning room home with him (where all the mops, vacuums etc are kept) I had to go home and leave the site not cleaned that day. I could have gone round to his house to get the key but decided to leave it as he was obviously having a dreadful day and did not want to add to his stress.

I raised a credit note to my client for work not done.

I also offered him three days PAID compassionate leave as I am a dog lover and know how horrible putting a pet to sleep is. He chose not to take me up on the offer of leave.

Today was payroll and I ask all my staff to get to me with a time sheet. On his time sheet he had claimed for every day and told me he did this as he had tagged 20 minutes extra cleaning on to make up his hours. He did not get my permission to do this.

I spoke to the client who said they were not prepared to pay for this unauthorized overtime as it did not get round the fact cleaning was not done for this day.

I contacted him and told him I would pay for these extra hours as he had done them in good faith but he could not do this again as the whole episode has now left me out of pocket. Legally I do not have to pay him for these extra hours.

He has now emailed his resignation and told me if I give him any more trouble he would not bother working his notice.

I am in shock... offering compassionate leave for a dog! Paying him for time the client will not refund me for. I feel that I have bent over backwards for him.

Is he out of order or am I?

OP posts:
Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 18:55

I just need to harden up a bit. One of my cleaning supervisors who is a lovely lady keeps telling me to toughen up as some staff will just take the piss otherwise.
I have just been watching on the news the Stella English vs Lord Sugar case. I need to learn from him and his phase "you can leave, I don't give a shit"

OP posts:
EnjoyResponsibly · 06/03/2013 18:56

Take the resignation.

Regarding the reference I'm not certain you can do that. You arent dismissing him for cause. You don't have to write a glowing 8 pager, but you may find you're required to confirm the dates of his employment.

almostanotherday · 06/03/2013 18:57

YANBU at all

bumperella · 06/03/2013 18:57

If you've already told him you will pay the overtime then I think you should stick with that, as irritating as it, even if you can (contractually) claw it back.
Waiting until his last day to refuse to pay it when initially you said you would is a bit unprofessional IMO.
He might not want to use you as a reference; if he asks then you could always tell him then that it wouldn't be a positive reference given the tone of his resignation.

EnjoyResponsibly · 06/03/2013 18:57

Ah Emmon don't do that, Sraluns coming over as a massive cock.

Altinkum · 06/03/2013 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 18:59

@enjoy

I pay Peninsula business services every month for a 24/7 employment law helpline. What I am allowed to legally do is write Joe Bloggs worked for me from 1/1/12 to 2/2/13, however in this situation I must regrettably decline to comment further. It is totally legal, whereas if I give an honest reference I can get done for libel.

OP posts:
Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 19:00

@enjoy

Suralan is a cock lol! Just wish I could harden up a bit....I will eventually....am working on it!

OP posts:
INeverSaidThat · 06/03/2013 19:03

YABU but only for being a big pushover. Grin. THREE days compassionate leave for a dog!!! What were you thinking. Sad.
(And yes, I am a dog lover)

I think the best way to deal with these things is to do whatever is normal and not go overboard on being too nice. There may have been other employees who would have liked three days compassionate leave for something they saw as equally important. It all starts getting too complicated if you are too unbuisness like about things.

I would be happy to see the back of the ungrateful exworker and I wouldn't worry about it anymore.

GuffSmuggler · 06/03/2013 19:16

Just don't mention a reference, and you can just write the bare minimum if ever asked as you say.

I don't think there is any point getting arsey with him on the last day, you'd hate for him to start claiming constructive dismissal or anything stupid.

Pay the overtime, smile when you say goodbye and walk away with your head held high.

quesadilla · 06/03/2013 19:18

YANBU. He sounds astonishingly entitled.

Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 19:21

@Inever

You are absolutely right and yes I am kicking myself for being such a big pushover!

I will replace the twat and move on.

If anyone could give me any hints as to how to get tougher I would really appreciate it!

I absolutely love running my business but if I want to get rich I will not do it by being such a big softy.

I think my weakness on this one is dogs! I foster terminally ill dogs from my local dog pound as I want them to die in a loving home. One of my rescues came in the top 10 cutest rescue mutts in the UK in a PETA competition. Our home is constantly full of lost, stray and dying animals. Dogs are lovely, they are loyal and obedient, unlike this tosser.

OP posts:
QuanticoVirginia · 06/03/2013 19:23

He is so out of order it's untrue!

My friend had been out late the previous evening. She returned home about midnight. found out much loved dog was unwell so stayed with him because she was so worried. things took a turn for the worse and she ended up getting the emergency vet out at about four in the morning and sadly dog had to be put down. She was distraught from this alone but as she was due to be in work for 7 would have had to go to work having not slept for 24 hours.

She rang up just asking to take the day off (out of A/L allocation). Boss was really arsey with her. She got extremely upset (through grief and lack of sleep). She told him there was no way she could come in and if it was an issue would have to go sick.

They had further 'words' about it when she returned so you were being more than reasonable.

QuanticoVirginia · 06/03/2013 19:26

PS I did allow someone to take three days off out of their annual leave when their cat died so maybe I'm as soft as you..................

MechanicalTheatre · 06/03/2013 19:27

He is a twat, you are an angel. You've been more than fair to him, and yes, you could do with toughening up a little (but still be nice!)

Looking after dying dogs - wow. What a lovely thing to do! It's brought tears to my eyes.

Crikeyblimey · 06/03/2013 19:32

Blimey - I only of 3 days special leave when my mother died (and it would only have been one if I wasn't organising her funeral :( ) and I had to request this in writing, explaining my reasons for asking.

He is cheeky and you'd be best off rid of him.

Follyfoot · 06/03/2013 19:38

Bloddy hell YANBU- I work in the NHS and we only get 2 days of bereavement leave for the death of immediate family. DH was discharged without notice from hospital following a life threatening illness; I was expected to go in to work and leave him on a sofa at home alone with a bucket to pee in because he was too ill to move. I had to take 2 half days of annual leave those first two days to go home to make sure he was OK (I work an hour away from home).

Ahem, sorry rant over. What an idiot he is....

breatheslowly · 06/03/2013 19:51

Did you pay him for the day he was off with his dog and then he is asking to be paid for the extra hours too or is he expecting to be paid as if he had worked a normal week? How many hours a day does he work for you? I think it must be a bit difficult for him to see the difference between claiming overtime that can't be recouped from a client and him having paid days off which you will cover for so can be recouped (though you will personally be working for free).

Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 20:04

I could not cover the site breatheslowly as he buggered off home with the key to the cleaning equipment room so I had to raise a credit note for over £30 for the client. I also drove 40 miles over there to cover his shift and wasted time and petrol doing this. When I got there I could not do jack without the key. I could have gone to his house to collect the key but did not want to bother him on such a difficult day.
Managing cleaners is TOUGH. I have only done it for 11 months and so far have had to tolerate the following:

  1. 1 cleaner got her husband to physically threaten me (as someone who has done kick boxing I told him to "bring it" and I would knock him into a different time zone-he declined to come round with the baseball bat when he heard that)
  2. last week got told to fuck off as one cleaner decided she was going 1 hour early as she wanted to see her friend and I told her she was going nowhere.
  3. last week got reported to the police for theft from a cleaner who pissed off with another key to a cupboard so I had another one cut and deducted it from his pay. I have been told to await a letter from his solicitors. Ever since then I have been getting the heavy breathing on both my land line and mobile. I am pretty sure the dirty calls are him.
Sometimes I just get so frustrated. I feel like whacking them on the bloody conk!
OP posts:
Cherriesarelovely · 06/03/2013 20:27

Yanbu! Some people just take the piss! You are well shot of him, I hope he DOES leave. I can't stand people that are all take and no give. Kudos to you for trying to do the right thing though, shame it was thrown in your face.

SuzySuzSuz · 06/03/2013 20:35

Part of my role is managing contractors who in turn manage their subcontractors which includes cleaners. It is a tough market & environment and staff turnover for some companies is quite high as it's often not the most well paid of roles.

  1. look into some training courses for conflict management, managing difficult staff, having difficult management conversations. They usually have role play involved and should be worth the money as will give you that extra confidence when standing firm in some situations.

  2. Be completely clear on what warrants paid special leave, in this case it was a pet bereavement, what about close family bereavement, distant family bereavement, urgent child care issues etc, you need to have something set our clearly or else some people will take the piss. What is the limit on paid special leave, how often etc. e.g our civil service dept is 5 days in any rolling 12 month period, only certain occasions which would NOT include death of pets or child care issues.

  3. be clear on what your performance management policy and process is, usually it may be an informal warning first but then a formal 1st stage warning, 6-12 month review period then all being well the initial warning is 'closed' , if a further issue happens in that period it's usually 2nd formal warning, a further review period or straight to dismissal. You and your staff all need to be clear on this.

  4. could the cleaning cupboard keys not be held in the site reception? If you're not sure on the office staff (as they're not your actual employees) perhaps they'd allow you to put up a small key box with a digi code so in absences, you or any other staff could access the key and provide the cover

  5. if overtime has to be signed off, which it always does as far as I know (!) then it does not get paid EVER unless it has been signed off.

Sorry that ended up a bit long!

Original poster
Emmon · 06/03/2013 20:44

I have Peninsula business services on my side and I find them really helpful. They have clearly set out my disciplinary and staff appraisal procedures.
I have told him umpteen times to leave the bloody key in the manager's office where it is supposed to be kept but he will not listen.

OP posts:
lougle · 06/03/2013 20:52

I'm confused. You offered him 3 days paid leave. He didn't take you up on that, but made his 1 day of unpaid leave up by doing the extra time spread over the week.

How has that left you out of pocket, barring the key incident, which would have happened whether he had or hadn't taken you up on your offer?

I understand that your client won't pay you, but that's the way of business.

I'm asking how he is causing you to be more out of pocket by having taken the day unpaid then made up the hours, as opposed to taking the (generous) 3 days of paid leave.

breatheslowly · 06/03/2013 21:01

My point is the same as lougle's. Your employee is probably confused as to why you want the day he took off to be unpaid but then offered him a further 3 days paid.

Coffeenowplease · 06/03/2013 21:06

Can i come work for you OP ?

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