To get married when I fear we may split up soon?

[substitutemycokeforgin]

Been together 11 years, 2 DDs.

We've both never been interested in marriage, and thought we would be together forever. But the last few years have been blighted with worse and more frequent arguments, basically over the way he speaks to me, rudely and with very little respect. We had some counselling last summer, since then things seem to have been improving a bit (though not, I have to say, thanks to the counselling). But the rows are increasing again, and we can't afford any more sessions. I am sick of living with the prospect of these frequent arguments on the horizon for the next 15 years until the kids leave home. I just can't see an end to it.

But I'm in a bad position financially - I don't work, have been a SAHM for the last 6 years, no pension, no savings, no nothing, and younger DD is only 1 so it'll be a couple of years before I can do a decent number of hours' work outside the house myself. (I do some crafting from home to sell but it only brings in pin money).

I know I'm going to get flamed and that I am considering using marriage for my financial advantage, but I'm just thinking about the security of my kids. And isn't that a big reason why people marry anyway - for security?! I am not a money-grabber - DP only earns £28k. And I totally admit that marriage is something we should have done years ago, for the legal protection, and that I've been foolish in not getting it all sorted out long before now . We do still have times when we get along ok, but I am getting pretty certain that things are never going to change definitively for the better, and that I probably need to get out sooner rather than later, in order to retain an ounce or two of self-respect. It just seems simpler to do this than undertake all the legal wrangling which would result after a split, if we were not married. And I wouldn't be duping DP either, I would make it very clear I was doing it for the security. So, I know the idea probably seems bizarre but I'm hoping some might see the sense in it?

I just cannot see why on earth your DP would agree to this though - what's in it for him? Nothing as far as I can see. If you really do think you will split you do need to be looking at finding work, his £28k is not going to go very far towards maintaining two homes. I know you've got the childcare costs issue, but you need to look into it all, what you would get in tax credits etc. Does your DP have savings? He should be putting some of it in your name. Can you save the Child Benefit?

That would be an awful thing to do to someone, let alone the father of your children.

If you jointly own the house and you would be likely to keep it anyway as the main childcarer, what's the point? Your DP would still have to provide for his children if you split, but if he doesn't then marriage will make no difference. His pension can't be worth much, and pensions are often well protected anyway unless you have been married for a number of years, but which time you could be well on your way to building up your own pension.

I just can't see the point.

I would look into it, especially regarding what happens to his share of the house if he dies. If it was financially advantageous then I would have no hesitation in doing it. He has benefitted from the years you have spent as a sahm, in terms of being able to build a career/pension and not worry about doing his share of the child care. I think it only fair, if he is behaving like a prick now, that you do whatever it takes to ensure he cannot deprive you of your rightful share of his income, post split.

Of course it's not ideal, but if you split and he married someone else, that someone else would have more rights to the assets you helped him acquire, than you would.

I wouldn't even level with him as to why I wanted to get married, beyond stating that it would make you his next of kin and be better if either of you died.

Would he want to marry you if he knows you are going to take him to the cleaners?

random odd fact< Statistically people who have been living together longer than 2 years are more likely to break up after marriage than those who didn't cohabit first. The reason, apparently, is that one person is insecure and needs that little bit of paper - which if course doesnt do anything to cure the insecurity suffered in the first place. (Cant remember where I picked that gem up from)

As a big fan of marriage, I thought at first "no way, this is a bad idea", but actually, you have been doing the work of a wife for years. You have been living in the framework of a family. Why shouldn't it be legally recognised at any point? It's not like the last 11 years didn't happen even if you don't see a future.

Are you planning to leave him as soon as you are married or is it more that you can see a future where you may or may not leave? If it's the latter, I would say absolutely get married. If it's the former, I'm not sure. I can see the 'for' argument but it sits a bit uncomfortably... Also, but prepared for everyone around you to assume that the marriage ruined your relationship. That may or may not bother you. I think I would be pissed off at the breakdown of my family being reduced to that conclusion. Your DP may be more amenable to counselling etc. after the wedding. He might be less inclined to allow a marriage to break down, regardless of what he thinks on this side of that fence.

for you. Sounds really tough.

You are not being unreasonable to want to ensure you children are financially secure and have a home. I think people should be more aware of the financial security of marriage for both partners. I wouldn't normally recommend marriage if a person isn't sure but I think it is the only option for you as you have been left financially vulnerable.

Well I would always advise a friend who asked my view to get married before having children. Not for any moral reason but to protect her legal position and that of any future children. BUT I think if your relationship is probably over I'd be reluctant to suggest you enter into a marriage knowing this. I think you should talk to a solicitor about protecting your position without actually having to get married. Getting divorced is a long and expensive process albeit you have better protection...

Difficult one and I feel sad for you...

don't waste time on a sham wedding. If you are going to split, sort it out legally and as amicably as possible without having to divorce too.

does he know that you have got to this stage?

On 28,000 he would only be liable for child maintenance not spousal anyway. And as others have pointed out divorce is costly both emotionally & financially. I am divoreced & will never marry again - I've had my marriage. It seems sad to think you aren't happy at the thought of your wedding - we were & for most of the marriage.

He earns 28k and you are joint owners of the house.

I really can't see how it would be worth it thh.

Yabu

Can you really stand up and make those vows feeling this way? Even if you do go through with it I think you risk a difficult and very acrimonious split, with possibly not much family support if they realise what has happened. If I was you I would think be looking for ways to protect yourself and children, especially the children without the marriage. Do you feel confident that your DP would support your DCs financially in the event of a split? Have you got support from your family that could help you in the initial stages until you find work?

Thanks for all your input. Whoknows, I wouldn't intend to actually tell family we had got married - can't see any reason at all to do so.

RedHelen, It seems sad to think you aren't happy at the thought of your wedding - I understand, but these are the feelings of someone who supports and believes in marriage - I'm afraid I don't, I would be doing it solely for the legal protection. I'm not interested in "my wedding" - some people just aren't. I've never, not even as a little girl, thought I'd ever be one to get hitched.

Battery about to die, sorry, will reply to others later - thank you.

Definitely do it. It will save you a lot of grief further down the line. Don't listen to people who disapprove. Protect yourself.

I do feel for you, this is obviously not something you are making light of, but I do think you could be getting really out of your depth with this idea. As for not telling your family, well, that is one way, but isn't there a risk they will find out anyway? Isn't your DH likely to tell people? If a split happens you are going to need family support either way, and you would be possibly giving yourself a lot more worry about by having to ensure you don't let slip it's a divorce not a split. I suppose you could, if found out, say that you kept the wedding quiet to avoid a fuss and have kept the divorce equally quiet because you are embarrassed at splitting so quickly after the wedding.

I am also not sure in the event of a very quick divorce how much more protection, pension rights etc you would have compared to an unmarried person, you really need proper legal advice on this.

Why would splitting up while unmarried precipitate a legal hell?

I don't understand. You plan to suggest to him that you get married in order to have a straightforward split? So why not just split? If he's reasonable enough to marry you so you have protection when you divorce, he'll be reasonable enough to agree a fair split of assets without the bother of marrying.

However if you plan to trick him into marriage by pretending you want to grow old with him then that's absolutely awful and of course you should not do it.

I do think you are labouring under some misconceptions. Getting married, if you already jointly own property, is not going to give you some cash bonanza.

Intending to do so to get divorced, and not tell your families is extremely cynical and calculating. How could you do that to someone, and why would you let them? Particularly for a small share of a potentially small pension most likely worth very little. Why would you do that for money?

Talking about a "legal hell" if you split up without being married is an empty threat on your part - it was your choice to be a SAHM and I don't see how you have been financially disadvantaged - quite possibly the opposite as you now own half of a property.

I would have some sympathy for you if you intended to make an attempt at the marriage, but at no point does this even seem to have crossed your mind.

I don't think theres any magic way of getting round the fact that the ending of this relationship is unlikely to provide you with some cash bonanza or give you lifelong financial security - there just isn't enough in the pot to do that.

This thread makes me feel like we still live in the times of Jane Austen. So basically marriage really IS about money and assets rather than love? (slopes of in disillusioned despair)

I hate to say this, but I'd look at the Entitled To website and think about how I could support myself, and yes, with help from the state if necessary, rather than stand up in a registry office and vow to marry a man I fully intended to leave.

Be true to yourself, OP.

Is an unhappy marriage really going to bring security to your children?

Is this the example you want to be setting for your two daughters? Honestly?

Telling him this may be the nail in the coffin

This from ErikTheNorseman

"You plan to suggest to him that you get married in order to have a straightforward split? So why not just split? If he's reasonable enough to marry you so you have protection when you divorce, he'll be reasonable enough to agree a fair split of assets without the bother of marrying.

However if you plan to trick him into marriage by pretending you want to grow old with him then that's absolutely awful and of course you should not do it. "

I can see no way in which a man who is not reasonable enough to want you protected would want to marry you now unless under some kind of misconception.

I would get legal advice.

The people I know who have divorced recently are still having a complicated time dividing assets. This goes on for years. One profligate husband is trying to get a bigger share of the house on the promise of a pension split (jam tomorrow - no guarantee there will be a pension in the future.....) You may get to live in the house whilst the children are under 18 though (although this may be possible to do without marriage and divorce).

You might get a quicker cleaner break by not marrying, which has its advantages.