To use my title

[ArtemisatBrauron]

I have a PhD and use my title - I was thinking of just using it at work but decided consistency was best and changed it with the bank etc as well. I've recently had several snide comments about it as well as a few family members and work colleagues who continue to address me/write to me as Mrs Brauron. I haven't corrected them because it seems rude, but it annoys me - AIBU?

[somebloke123]

whiteflame I'm just speculating but maybe the fact that doctorates are a relatively recent thing in the UK compared with, for example, Germany. I think it's only from the start of the 20th century that they started multiplying here.

Some people have become distinguished academics without one. For example Fred Hoyle the cosmologist didn't have one. I'm not sure that Enoch Powell did either, though he did become a professor in his mid 20s.

It was quite common for people in the scientific civil service (e.g. Harwell, Royal Greenwich Observatory) to pursue distinguished research careers without doing one. And of course in industry.

So although it may be recognised as signifying a level of academic/scholarship/research ability, it's not uniquely so, and not regarded as an absolutely defining characteristic to the extent of warranting a change in everyday life title.

[someoftheabove]

Neither is being married an absolutely defining characteristic, but many people still change their title after getting married.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

somebloke, it is now exceptionally rare for someone to become an academic without becoming a Dr. In fact, Dr came in as a title at around the same time 'Mrs' ceased to be widely used as a courtesy title for women servants of a certain status. These things change.

These days, the expectation is that if you are an academic as opposed to a research student, you're Dr so-and-so, and conferences will book you into hotels under that title. If you've ever tried to convince a rather stroppy hotel that, yes, you really are booked in despite having no ID to go with the title the conference organizer booked you in with, you would understand why this matters! (I've done it because I am not a Dr anything and was presenting at a conference where most people were, before I knew enough to warn conference organizers I was just Ms).

It is not practical to have no ID in the title or name you commonly use in your working life. It's quite possible to have ID in several names and titles (I've got one bank card for 'Mrs DHs's name' and the rest for Ms Myname). But you can't really keep your work identity totally separate from your 'everyday' one.

Obviously I don't think most people extend that to Christmas cards!

[somebloke123]

LRD Yes it is rare now, but it used to be less so. I was just speculating on the possible reasons why people who have PhDs often don't bother to use the title in real life.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, yes, I'm with you on that. I think there are also just far more PhDs than there used to be, aren't there? I would imagine that a couple of generations ago, maybe it was all a bit less anonymous and you weren't so likely to need to prove your identity in the same way. I think medics used to use the title less too - isn't the thing with surgeons being 'Mr' to do with a certain amount of snobbery in the past?

[Shodan]

My brother uses Dr on all official forms etc I believe, but would never insist (or even request) that friends and family use that form of address.

However, I do address letters to him with his title, because I watched him struggle and make himself ill with it over many years, so when he finally achieved it I was so proud. It's my way of reminding him of my pride in him and his great achievement, if you like.

[ComposHat]

If I ever successfully complete my PhD I can't imagine wanting to use it outside a University context. If I was working in a field where it had no relevance then I think I'd feel a bit of a ring knocker and it would look like I fancied myself a cut above my colleagues.

I certainly can't imagine busting a gut to tell Natwest or Tesco Club card that I am now Dr Hat (as my sister did) she was most put out when she discovered her Visa just had her initials and surname and no title.

Even less so can I imagine upbraiding a family member, colleague or whoever for not using it.

So OP I think *YABUP on a number of levels.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

When my cousin (who is quite badly dyslexic) got his PhD, I send him an invitation to something addressed to him and his wife (who's a medic) as 'The Drs [name]'. I had to look up the correct form of address and everything. Then she went and spoilt it by becoming a surgeon!

It is nice celebrating people's achievements. It is very different from asking other people to celebrate yours by using a title, though (with ref to the OP not you!).

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Something I wonder about (and I'm thinking of this because you mention your sister, compos, and IIRC you are a bloke), is how this 'Dr' thing works if you're part of a group where people being 'Dr' isn't expected. And maybe you are yourself, so forgive me if so. I mean, I'm dead middle class and boring, and it is no surprise if I get a PhD, but on the other hand, I'm female, and 'Dr' is still assumed by many to be a 'male' title. So I sort of want to use it for that reason, to dispel the myth. I wonder if I'd feel the same if I were, say, a man from an ethnic minority people expect not to be doctors. Because you can imagine wanting to have something that announces 'look, you didn't think someone who looked like me could do this, but we can'.

That said, someone I know who has one of the regional accents that people think of as being 'uneducated' and who's working class, doesn't use his Dr title because he would feel like a snob. And I see that side too.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ohhh, those are brilliant some! I want to be HRH Sultan Shah! Or Wing Commander.

Now do you think they really have all the people with those titles on their books, or is it just pretentiousness?

[OliviaMumsnet]

They havent got any admirals...

[Trills]

The "Mr" thing for surgeons as I remember.

In the past doctors were physicians, with university education, etc. Surgeons were barber-surgeons with knives and little formal education. So doctors used to look down on surgeons and call them Mr and be all snooty.

Now surgeons are also qualified doctors, so they call themselves doctor, but when they reach consultant level as a surgeon they choose to call themselves Mr to say Just a surgeon is it? Well I'm proud of being a surgeon.

(or something like that, it's a sort of reverse-snobbery "reclaiming" kind of thing)

[somebloke123]

I can imagine that that place may well have all those. They've missed out "His Holiness" though.

[somebloke123]

Oops sorry about the above deletion. The page appreared to show some personal details - but I now realise that it was just because I had logged onto my account.

The lnk was to the ROH registration page, click on "Other" for Title:

www.roh.org.uk/register

[ComposHat]

LRD I see what you mean, but in the case of me and my sister, I put it down to differences in character. She frames and displays her BSc/MSc certificates, mine are shoved in a drawer somewhere.

A large proportion of her social circle (She went to a fancier school than me) are Doctors (either academic or medical) as is her partner so it certainly isn't a huge deal.

In my social circle there is one person with a PhD and anyone who knew me before the age of 14 would be amazed I had a GCSE to my name, let alone a Masters.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

some, FWIW I didn't see any details, don't worry.

I do want to be 'His Holiness'. Or even 'Her Holiness'. It reminds me of HerBeatitude, who used to post under than name a lot.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

compos - oh, sure, personality is a huge amount to do with it. I will always introduce myself as 'firstname' and have to be reminded I have a surname and title; my big brother often finds people assume his surname is his first name, because he uses it when a first name would be more usual. Different degrees of formality, I guess. He's much shyer than me, so stands on ceremony a bit.

I know what you mean about the amazement a little - good on you. It must feel great to be confounding those expectations.

[Lueji]

Compost,
your sister must feel like Howard in The Big Bang Theory. :o
Why would she display her BSc and MSc diplomas if she doesn't have a PhD, in that company?

[VenusRising]

If the postal system can deliver letters to you as ms mrs miss or reverend then I wouldn't bother about insisting that your relies use the dr bit.

If your replies are in denial of your undoubted brilliance and erstwhile scholastic endeavour, then they're a bunch of begrudgers, and "fling the poo now" would be my advice!

Well done btw on so many having a phd.... Someday I'll have one too!

[VenusRising]

Replies? Rellies!

[ComposHat]

luej probably wasn't that clear upthread she does have a DPhil but I haven't been to her flat since she was awarded it. I assume it is up a d. too. She even. a bit sniffy if you mention she has a PhD rather than a DPhil.

[ComposHat]

My sister insisting on being addressed as Doctor in written correspondence is one thing, but the only person who got pissy about being addressed by their title wasn't a bigshot academic with a brilliant career behind them but a crap science teacher at my secondary school.

If you forgot and addressed him as Sir, he'd thunder 'I'm not a sir I am Doctor Crapteacher' we all thought he was a massive dickwad because of this and I get the impression the staff felt the same.

Perhaps he was just bitter that whilst his PhD buddies were splitting the atom, finding cures for cancer, he was chasing lost PE kits and wondering who had left the gas taps in the labs on.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

My parents always find it difficult because they both have those, and lots of people assume (especially with my mum, partly because she's a woman but also because of how she comes across) that this 'D Phil' thing must be some kind of sub-under-level diploma. I've never come across anyone who objected to people recognizing it was a PhD!

My brother had a 'Dr Crapteacher' too ... in fact they sound disturbingly similar as he was a Chemistry teacher with a chip on his shoulder.

It always reminds me of the bit in Roald Dahl's 'Danny the Champion of the World' where the ex-army teacher insists on being addressed as 'captain'. Dahl points out (and I think it's based on his own experiences at school) that it's pretty piss-poor to use titles like 'major' in civilian life but 'captain' is really shite.

[Yjossarian]

I don't mind if people do/don't call me by my title; the only thing I'm a bit about is that I work with a man who is also a D.Phil and everyone calls him Dr. I'm just Yjossarian...guess they don't think I'm smart enough for the title!