to be considering making my son list his belongings on Ebay..

[CocacolaMum]

I live with my husband and our 2 kids. A boy who is nearly 12 and a girl who is 7. The boy is mine from a previous relationship. He doesn't know his biodad but as my husband has been around for 10 years he is dad to him.

The issue we have at the moment is an ongoing one. My son steals.

He shoplifted when he was 9 (just the once as far as I know) I took him to a local playscheme which was meant to be supervised by the play leader but along with another boy my son left and walked to a local shop where he was caught stealing chocolate. The shopkeeper walked him home and of course I was mortified. My son wasn't allowed back to the playscheme and was grounded for a couple of weeks.

Over the past few years there have been a handful of occasions where he has taken things out of the cupboards (chocolate usually - its not like he starves, I do feed him! Just like to limit the junk) and money from my coat pocket. Usually this is a couple of pounds though on one occasion it was £40 which I was supposedly keeping safe for my sister. The latter happened last summer and since then he seemed to be doing well behaviourally

Anyway, hes started again. Its now a few times a WEEK. Its a couple of pounds each time but the amount (to me) isn't the point.
I have tried shouting, reasoning, asking him why he feels the need to steal from me, rewarding good behaviour with masses of attention, telling him how hurtful it is, telling him what happens if he gets caught as an adult, my partner has (shamefully) even smacked him. I just feel completely helpless now. He is constantly grounded, has had his electrical items (mp4 player, ds etc) all confiscated. He knows he could earn weekly pocket money by tidying his room but instead seems to prefer me catching him steal!!

Just to say also, I have had my son visit the GP with my mum (thinking he might find it easier to be more open without me?) and asked that maybe they could refer him for some kind of counselling but I received a letter stating that they didn't feel it would offer any assistance. The reason for trying to get him counselling is that the only big "thing" that happened around the start of the stealing was my nan (to whom he was very close) got cancer and passed away within a short period of time (diagnosis to death was around 4 months and she was 64)

He isn't a bad kid, very polite and well mannered to everyone (except us obviously), has a few interests but he is very disorganised (I have been encouraging him to straighten this out) and forgetful (I think both are probably an age thing) but all in all he isn't violent or naughty at school. I just don't understand why he keeps stealing (and lying) because I catch him ALL THE TIME and now of course his sister is watching his bad behaviour like a hawk.

He is pretty average now academically (has struggled in the past to keep up but tried so hard in the last year - again we made a big deal of this to encourage him) but his sister is very advanced and I am of course careful that he doesn't feel at all degraded by this but I think it does niggle him - he jokes that they are like perfect peter and horrid henry (it kind of IS like that). She has been known to help HIM with homework.

I cannot think of anything else other than to have him sell EVERYTHING in his room other than furniture and clothes and school stuff so he knows how serious this is!! AIBU?!

I don't understand the connection with selling his stuff and stopping the stealing? Have I misunderstood your post?

Wow.

You jump from this tale of a naughty smacked (!) 12 year old to a sad, polite and well-mannered boy back to a kid who you think might need to have everything sold on eBay.

You need to be consistently loving and consistently fair but firm.

And you really need to not hit him or allow him to be hit. IMHO.

sorry, I am just all over the place with this - it probably made no sense

Ok so I know people have said in the past when he stole that I should confiscate toys as punishment. Problem is that he is doing it so often that its not really effective as a punishment (I don't really think punishment is the right word - just SOMETHING to make him see that he needs to stop!!)

I thought maybe doing something so severe like actually making him sell his toys too see that I am serious that for as long as he is behaving like a criminal by stealing from me, he isnt "entitled" to his own things might be an idea?

Have you considered getting a police officer to come and talk to him about the steeling? I have heard of other parents who have done this with a successful outcome. Why do you think he is doing this? Does he get pocket money? Do his friends have more than him? Have you talked to him about this calmly without getting upset or shouting?

It's a really tough one. I used to steal a few pounds a week from my parents when I was about 9-11. I did it because I wanted sweets like my friends and my parents wouldn't let me buy sweets at all. I then shared the sweets with my friends at school. I was a really good kid other than that. Sounds daft now. I hope you get it sorted.

I don't see how selling his things will help. It sounds like a bit of an empty threat really. Can you really imagine him having no belongings?

But he is nearly 12, at secondary school. Humiliating him won't really solve anything in the short or long term.

What is he unhappy about?

It screams 'cry for help' to me.

If he's not even trying to hide it, then he wants you to know.

Could he be having problems at school? Or elsewhere?

Of course you can't let him steal. As well as trying to get to the bottom of it you are going to have to stop him having access to your purse and to other money. This will be a pain, but you will have to put up with it in the short term.

Talk to the school, find out if everything is ok.

'Toys?' 'Smacking'?

This is a 12 year old not a small child. I'm surprised he didn't hit his stepdad back tbh.

I have spoken to the school. He was picked on at primary school and unfortunately the child has gone on to the same secondary school and there was 1 occasion last year where it all started again and I went in and made sure it was dealt with and the other boys parents were called - My son said that had stopped it thankfully and his grades have all improved (which seemed to back all of this up)

I thought it was an attention thing too so have made time for just us to spend together and just him and his dad too so he doesn't ever feel left out etc

What does he do with the money he steals?

If you can find this out, it might give you a really useful insight into what is going on in his head. For example he might be being bullied and the bully is demanding cash, or perhaps he is trying to 'buy' friends with sweets and treats, perhaps he has food issues and is buying himself sweets and crisps to binge on.

Ramping up the punishments probably won't be effective, and could break your relationship long term.

He's 11 years old. Sit him down at the kitchen table. Get your daughter with your mum perhaps so they're a no distractions. Talk to him. Ask him outright questions, tell him from that day on, it's a CLEAN SLATE. And that everything in the past is in the past. But that it can't happen again. Give him back his gadgets.
This is a good time to perhaps re-iterate what he can do to earn money. Keeping his room tidy should be a basic requirement, not an extra. But it's a start. Get him doing a few small jobs around the house, so he is able to remember what it feels like to feel rewarded. Even if its emptying a bin.

I used to take money when I was his age. My parents did this. It was really a cycle to me. Sitting down, having a frank talk, all out in the open, it was a hard 20 minutes. Then we had dinner, no more was said about it, and it was a happier environment. I never did it again. It made me realise I didn't have to do it. I know that sounds silly but just needed something to break the cycle.

i don't think you can justify selling his stuff. firstly, you seem too nice to actually go through with it (are you really going to leave him with nothing?!) and secondly, it doesn't seem connected with the original problem (stealing).

i second whoever said to get the police involved - not to prosecute, but to talk to him about it. explain how stealing is wrong and badly it affects the person who is being stolen from. it might be the "fright" he needs to get him on the straight and narrow.

i think you need to ask him why he's doing it. are his friends getting more pocket money than him to spend on sweets etc. at school? or is he being bullied for money, for example? i don't say that to frighten you, but i know of people who have stolen money from family to "fit in" better at school, particularly at that age.

good luck - he does't sound like a bad kid, just someone who probably needs some advice and some boundaries :)

Maybe don't actually sell it but just take it all away, box it up, take it to a family member/friends house to store and just telling him that you have sold it all.

My cousin stole compulsively as a teen, which developed into compulsive lying. Now at 28 she lives in a complete fantasy world, she lies as second nature and has been involved in several scams that involved conning people out of quite a lot of money (and it is suspected that there have been a lot of other scams that her family don't know about)
The awful part is that she is actually a really nice person, but she is just addicted to lying and stealing.

I am not suggesting that your DS will go down this road, but I wish that something could have been done for her before it got so bad.
There is obviously an underlying reason for it, maybe counciling would be good for him.
Have you tried talking to the school about it? They could probably help.

I think he might have an issue, have you had him tested for add/ADHD? I'm wondering if he doesn't understand that stealing is wrong - maybe he thinks what's yours is his?

I think it's possible something else is going on - what is HIS explanation for why he continues to steal?

But whether something else is going on or not I would do the following (feel free to ignore any or all of what I'd do). - I have had foster teenagers steal so I have arranged therapy for them, either through school or camhs. I've also locked all money/jewellery in a safe or in my car for very long periods of time - I can appreciate that you might not want to do this as you might feel that you 'should' be able to leave your handbag in your own house but the reality is you can't and you have a cycle you may need to break. Immediate payment back of money taken, so selling something to cover it (this is a natural consequence and NOT punishment - he owes the money so you get it back. Then forgive and forget that part and draw a line under it). In general once he has done something wrong, sort it a d move on - each stealing incident dealt with separately and moved on from.

Then give pocket money - some linked to chores (he may need help at the start, or time limited 'lets all tidy up to this timer for 15 minutes"). Some just for him without chores - maybe a small amount?

''Maybe don't actually sell it but just take it all away, box it up, take it to a family member/friends house to store and just telling him that you have sold it all. ''

Please don't do this as eventually you'll give it back to him. This will only teach him he will get his own way.

I haven't told the school about his stealing. Mainly because I really wanted to avoid him being thought of as a thief at school!! Maybe I should go in and see what they suggest.

No, I hate the idea of leaving him with nothing. It just worries me that it has been an ongoing thing and obviously the older he gets the more serious it becomes.

He spends the money on sweets for himself (he did spend it on sweets for bullies years ago but the last couple of times I have followed him to the shop and caught him in the act as it were)

so if he's just spending the money on sweets, maybe the issue is that he feels he's not getting enough pocket money? maybe you could explain to him that money isn't "free" and that is has to be earned, and put a chore/reward system in place. ie. if you do xyz each day/week, you get x amount of money. if you want more, you need to do abc as well.

explain to him that if he is caught stealing again, he will need to pay back what he has stolen out of his pocket money each week. after he learns that he'll lose his money, he'll probably stop. he's young enough to be able to learn from it, i think.

I have had some pretty light fingered foster brothers in the past. The foster carer used to tell the school they need counselling for x y z not that they stole. So with your son you could say about his nan and the bullying.

I love the person who said sell his stuff to make the money back... Sounds like something I'd do!

The police thing is also a good idea, obviously not to press charges but to sit him down and explain the consequences, which will scare him a lot! we used to get lots of kids steal minor things from the sports shop I worked at, we would call the police and get them to send someone round to prevent them getting used to it and liking the 'rush' they got from doing it. Most police were really good at doing the scary cop bit. Something about the authority of the police when they are young (once they hit 13/14 they just don't care anymore).

I agree with others that smacking him is defo not the way forward here.
I also agree that a house meeting where you get it all out and set out new rules and new boundaries and the punishments for overstepping would benifit.

Good luck... I hope things work out

Poor boy. He sounds very mixed up. I wonder how different you treat him compared to his half sister? I don't know what the answer is, but I am fairly sure smacking and selling his belongings won't help at all. In fact, that just reeks of child abuse.

When he isn't helping himself to money from my pocket I treat my son very well - They both have out attention together and separately and if either misbehave they are both told off. We might be slightly harder on him but that's nothing to do with paternity and everything to do with expectations for a nearly 12 yr old being higher than those for a 7 yr old.

He was smacked once and while it wasn't the best course of action I would strongly disagree that it "reeks of child abuse".

I think I have found a couple of online counselling places. I am going to sit down with my son and again try to explain the implications of his actions and try to find out whether something else is going on and then help him navigate one of these online counselling sites. Hopefully he will find some good advice there but I am not sure having never used anything like that before. If anyone knows which are best please post your recommendations, thank you..

To the person who seemed surprised that my son has toys. He is nearly 12, is it not normal for children of his age to play with toys?!

Sounds like a really difficult situation! I can see how the cycle of disappointment for all of you is enough to drive you to your limits. I completely agree with those who say that the cycle needs to be broken sooner rather than later. It sounds like you have a pretty good relationship with your son aside from this, and with his teenage years looming you'll want to preserve that as much as you can!

You haven't really commented (but sorry if I've just missed it) on the suggestion of getting a police officer to talk to your son? It sounds like it could really be a good way to put an end to it all and spell out the consequences if he carries on stealing. I think this is the route I would take at this point because it sounds like you've tried pretty much every other avenue.

I too would be reluctant to involve the school, but in light of the fact that he's had problems before, I might speak to his teacher and say that he's showing some of the signs again at home, that occurred the last time he was being bullied at school and could they keep a close eye on things?

Good luck with it. You sound like a caring Mum and it's obvious you only want the best for him, so keep letting him know that you're on his side whichever route you choose from here.

Does he get pocket money or not?

Try connections ? They help young people?

At nearly 12 I think he should be having pocket money as standard, not just for tidying his room.

I thought of connexions but they apparently start at 13.

In answer to the police - I have tried it. It was a couple of years ago and it did seem to help for a short time. Might be worth another go I suppose.

I told him he could have £5 a week as long as he kept his side of things (his room tidy, no stealing!) and then could earn more by doing odd bits and bobs for me (washing up, walking the dog that sort of thing) but he just doesn't keep his side of things up for long enough to actually get it. I know what you are saying about having money of his own being important at this age - what I am concerned about is that if we give him money for doing absolutely nothing then that's what we are encouraging. That's the last thing I want him to learn. I think its important to earn what you have, AIBU?