in my views on the TA adverts

[Kinnane]

I feel anger/sorrow/sadness when I see these adverts.

penguin73 in the regulars if you choose not to go on tour you could get done for desertion.

Not so the TA. They cannot be compelled by law to go. Anyway, that isn't what this thread is about.

Kinnane how do you think they should recruit/advertise?

My DH is in the RAF, he has been for just over 26 years. He left school with not very good qualifications, did a course at college then got a job which was going no where, so he joined the RAF. He has made a good career out of it, one that he would not have had had he have stayed in Civvy street. He can leave in 3 years and go into a good job, and he will have a good pension.

DS1(18) is going to join the Army. He wants to join as an Officer and had a taster day with them last week. He would go tomorrow if I let him, but fortunately knows his A levels are important and are too near to throw away. He would have gone at 16, but we all felt he should do his A levels first. He is probably going to go to Uni first now.

I went to school with a lad who only wanted to join the Army, and that is what he did. He had a few CSEs when we left, he had no oppurtunites and would have got nowhere in our town. He is now a Warrant Officer. Joining the Forces can be the making of lots and lots of people!

They do say at the recruitment offices about the job and I don't think anyone would think it's all happy jolly fun all the time.

You don't just sign up from an ad and go straight in Y'know?

You're right, it's not. But if anyone is reading this thread who is tempted to join the TA they need to do their hwk and be aware of the full facts and legal obligations obtained through the official channels, and not be misguided by well-meant but inaccurate information here.

TA can be compelled (1996 Act), though they can apply for exemptions (on much wider grounds than a regular). If exemption not granted, they must go.

Okey dokey penguin73 and scaevola I shall go check my facts

Well well, every day's a school day... Technically yes they can be compulsorarily (is that a word?) mobilised, although it appears it's unusual, and as scaevola days, there is a much wider range of reasons that they can apply for exemptions. I wonder when the last time someone in the TA was subject to compulsory mobilisation?

Either way, I stand corrected!!

Penguin73 I will just add, I sincerely hope the last place anyone looks if they are researching joining the Army is Mumsnet

I don't have an issue with the military or the advertising despite not agreeing with the current conflict they are doing the job our elected government sent them to do.

However there is one bit of the TV ads that I hate every time and that's.

Soldier sat at computer screen. Then voice over days something like.

"Target destroyed zero casualties".

Well it's just not true, there may be no "friendly" casualties, and the insurgents may be horrible but there were casualties. Humans were killed.

I just shudder at how detached and easy technology has made killing, like blasting aliens on a video game.

The advert you are talking about is RAF and the person featured an RAF serviceman, not a soldier. There are no casualties as the target that is destroyed is a mobile rocket launcher which are set up by the insurgents but then left to be deployed remotely - in this case the insurgents have already left the area so no, no casualties. Again no lies, but people misinterpret things - which shows it is time for me to hide this thread and go to bed!

My dad was a care-leaver who joined the army. He served for his entire working life and had a good career.

But I'm sure he would have liked to have had other choices in his life.

Yes, the Army can provide a good life, but it should not be the only route out of poverty or the only way to access job training for young people.

Also, it is worth considering that a significant proportion of people do not do so well after leaving the Army, PTSD, homelessness and drifting into crime are more common then they should be.

Finally, I still have a great deal of unease at the way the Deepcut cases were handled, I think problems within the army are swept under the carpet more then they should be - another huge concern if we're painting the army as a good option for those from deprived backgrounds.

The Army doesn't target 'deprived' areas - recruiting offices and careers fair outreach are across the county in all sorts of areas and at all sorts of events.

I think there is chicken/egg confusion here. Because they can (and do) take on school leavers with no qualifications whatsoever, it does not follow that they are deliberately seeking only those with poor attainment records. (Remembers old line from Yes Minister about the Army providing a comprehensive education to make up for their comprehensive education).

Indeed in recent years, applications have outstripped available places for regulars, and some trades stopped recruiting.

MrsBW: all 27,000 of the TA who have been deployed to Afghanistan (indeed every single member of TA who has been mobilised since 1996) has been compulsorily mobilised. It is the required legal basis. The Army doesn't go in for sending people into operational theatres illegally. The rate seeking exemptions is pretty low, as the training is thorough and people know what will be expected of them in terms of deployment, and those who have come to realise do not want to do this usually leave. How TA is deployed operationally is well known.

Scaevola thanks for that. I know the TA deploys operationally. I'm a bit confused where you say 27,000 were compulsorily mobilised (although that may be the legal term) because I can personally name volunteers who certainly weren't compelled to go.

The difference I was trying to highlight in my initial post (clumsily, and partially incorrectly, i now realise) was that if they (TA) don't want to deploy they have the choice to leave... Which regulars don't necessarily.

Every TA soldier I know has volunteered. Not every regular has. That's the point I was trying to make. However I have learned a new thing in TA technically, albeit rarely, TA can be compelled to go so or putting me right, I thank you.

I'm still interested to know how Kinnane feels the Army should recruit?

God, some of that iPad auto correct is awful!

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but my 18 year old ds is in the TA, he joined at 17 but wasn't allowed to do stuff like life firing etc till 18.

He finished his phase 2 basic training at Catterick on Saturday and didn't want to come home . He isn't typical "cannon fodder" (someone else's words, not mine), he's an affluent Home Counties Grammar School boy doing 3 hard A levels and has good offers from RG Unis but is going in as a soldier in September, I think. Obviously we would prefer him to go to Uni and then go in as an officer (we've given up trying to dissuade him from the Army altogether), but he just loves being in the Army, even doing 4 mile runs with massive heavy rucksack which wore a hole in his skin followed by pressups in a stream in minus 3C, then doing target practice for hours on end.

No other job gives you the opportunities to learn useful skills, travel, make lifelong friends and gives you the self respect that my ds is learning right now. He is counting down the days till he leaves school, which he loathes, and joins up.

Yes, you do also get those who volunteer (indeed beg) to be compulsorily mobilised to go on operations. Those are often specialists (languages, medics) and depending on what is required for the particular operation, they may succeed in their wish.

The compulsory deployment of whole formations of TA has been common as well for Afghanistan. These are usually signalled well in advance, giving people time to quit before mobilisation if they decide this is not a role for them. Those who want to serve, but cannot at that particular time would apply for an exemption at that point.

MrsBW, I'm not that au fait with TA policy, but it is my understanding that they use the term Compulsorily Mobilised to ensure that civilian employers cannot sack them for deploying on Ops. SaBRE works with Reservists and civilian employers to get them onside

Mrs bw, that is NOT correct about ta being able to opt out of mobilising, please check your facts.

Sorry, that REALLY wound me up when dh went to Afghanistan. All those people saying "well, it's not like he has to go is it, he can say no"

No, he couldn't. Not to mention that he signed up for the ta knowing this could happen, so he should morally, imo, make good on that promise and go. Which he did.

And came back without his religious faith. But there you go.

Is there an exemption for emergency services for mobilisation with the TA or is that for wartime reservists?

SilentMammoth if you read back the whole thread you'll see I did exactly that and also came said 'I'm wrong'

Came back and said

Yes, my apologies to you!

We're a military family & I would not be impressed if my DC chose the forces, even though I am in agreement with the need for Armed Forces.

One of my DC is a cadet but I know that it's just to go on his application for uni & he's not seriously considering joining up.

Mrs BW "Kinnane how do you think they should recruit/advertise? "

Would I show pictures of the 400 dead(our Army only).
Would I show 000's injured in mind or in body.
would I show the walking wounded the amputees

Would I ask the question why are we reducing the Army by as many 000's as the many 000's as we hope to inlist from this campaign.