To think that if a train seat has a ticket saying "reserved" on it...

[CalamityKate]

.... that's a huge clue that someone's reserved it?

Two trips to London in the past 2 days and for 3 of the four journeys we booked seats.

On all 3 occasions, someone was sitting in the seats.

And you know, I wouldn't mind so much but on all 3 occasions the people in the seats rolled their eyes, tutted, huffed and puffed and made a great show of having to move seats in a way that made it clear that WE were being incredibly unreasonable to expect to sit in the seats WE had paid for!

One woman in particular was very put out and spent the remainder of the journey casting dirty looks our way. Her and her companion had clearly been in the seats for a while, since the table was covered with litter. There were plenty of unreserved seats nearby.

Honestly, I started to wonder if there's some sort of etiquette I don't know about. Like "If you don't manage to sit in your seat before someone else then tough shit" or something?

Nickel

That's what i meant upthread.mi too have "compromised" before because i felt petty to insist on my chosen seat, but funnily enough it always ends up that you are the one putting up with the discomfort. So now I always insist on my seat.

We do return London - the North every week. I book our tickets 3 months in advance and reserve seats.

When we had snow a last months there was a bit of disruption and a couple of times the train company put out restrictions were cancelled and to travel on any train. When they do that reservations don't always stand.

But one Sunday, returning to London, the restrictions hadn't been lifted, however we were early getting on the train and they hadn't put the reservation tickets out. We went to our reserved seats and some business people on their way to a conference were already sat in our seats. Now I know this train gets very busy and I asked them to move because, as the tickets weren't out yet I didn't want to sit elsewhere in what might be someon else's seat. They huffed and puffed about moving, but two of them did, even though they had reservations elsewhere on the train and made a big show of moving to another table seat.

Then another couple got on and said they were sitting in their seats and one of them said "oh there's no reservations- just sit anywhere," and the couple moved off. The guard then came round putting the seat reservations out and the other couple ended up having to move again as they were in someone else's seat- but they didn't ask the business people to move- just went through into another carriage. I ended up wishing I had done the same as they proceeded to have loud conversation peppered with effing this and effing that, even though I was sat there with a child, for the next three hours. I couldn't move by this time as the train was full and people were standing. I won't say what company they were from but I heard all about it, and I have to say they didn't provide a very good image for it.

At work we have to reserve a seat, but will have a travel anytime ticket. I only use the out bound reservation.

I sit on reserved seats if there's no one there and nothing else but would never huff and puff and moan about getting up! That's just rude.

I used to work for the railway and I'm sure it was actually an offence to tamper with or remove seat reservation tickets - this was stated in the "national rail conditions of carriage". Pretty sure that's still the case if you want to quote it on future journeys! I think you can get fined for it.

I will sit in a reserved seat, in the knowledge that I may have to move. On some trains I use quite often - the 4.30 out of Kings Cross to Newcastle, for example - it is not unusual for almost every seat to be reserved and only a tiny proportion of those with reservations turn up. It is usually worth a go.

Absolutely no justification in getting huffy when someone asks you to shift, though.

I will sit in reserved seats because often their 'owners' don't turn up. However I'm quite happy to move if people ask me to.

Jamie - oh if had been better to sit in the window seat i would have - the bloke was really really quite large and it actually made more sense not to swap seats because I would have been squashed against the window, unable to hoik DD across me, unable to get out to the toilet. etc.

I was relieved when they went though, they were really really boring

spg1983 - Does that mean if I reserve a seat, then decide to sit elsewhere (because I always end up with a crap seat being reserved for me), and remove my old reservation ticket to free up my reserved seat, I am committing an offence?

I will sit in a reserved seat, in the knowledge that I may have to move

Me too as loads of people end up not actually travelling at all but I wouldn't get huffy.

I do deeprwd. I'm not drunk honest! Stoopid fi.gers

the thing i find about reserve that is bad
is that when i have to do 40 min journey on a cross country train that even if i still a none reserved seat it will be be reserved at the next stop and you dont know cos the computer thingy in the seat does not tell you
i once ended up moving 3 times and standing at the end

I did once get on a train with the kids and had reserved seats. As I got on the train announcer was saying that the reservations were not showing in our carriage but still stood.
There was a woman in 2 of our seats - her bags apparently justified a seat despite others standing. I asked her to move and she said that there were no reservations. I repeated what the announcer had said and again asked her to move.

You would think I had asked her to eat slugs. She huffed and puffed, said I was being most difficult, asked why I couldn't sit elsewhere and then finally got up and stormed out of the carriage. I got several grins from other people in the carriage and enjoyed the rest of the journey as much as you can when you are travelling with kids.

That was selfish and rude.

I once got on a very busy train to find someone in my reserved seat. So politely asked her to move only to be told that I had to ask the person who was in her seat to move! (I am ashamed that I did do that - was not assertive at all back then)

Ellies yes you are and if you are witnessed doing it you could be fined (for a start you don't want to encourage the chancers to think that they can do it: the fine for removing the ticket is higher than the fine for sitting in the seat iirc). Can't find it in national conditions of carriage, but it usually says on the bottom of the ticket.

On my honeymoon we paid to upgrade our seats to the posh ones. It was a long flight to Mexico.

We get settled in and i clock the hostess kneeling down speaking to a middle aged couple

Turns out they decided to sit there as they didn't like their 'normal' seats! WTF!

He was arguing he had a bad back and wasn't going to move. Another couple who had paid their £300 for the seats just looked on amazed!

It was riveting stuff and he did move eventually but it some persuading from the poor girl, he was an utter idiot!

I had nice flight though ...

ellies yes it does! Just looked it up and it's actually one if the railway bye laws. The situation you've described is the only downside to that one - obviously it's designed to protect the person who has reserved the seat and prevent their reservation being taken by someone else. So technically yes it would be an offence but in reality no conductor would do anything about it apart from actually be quite grateful you'd freed up a seat. The only thing to watch out for is that if you get on at one station and have it booked for the first half of the journey and then someone else had booked the second half, you mustn't take the ticket out if it's been printed to show both halves (hope that makes sense?) as just because you'd decided against it, the reservation still stands for the rest of the journey after your bit.

For info, the enforceable fine for removing a reservation ticket is £200 and the fine for refusing to vacate a reserved seat is £100. May be worth quoting in future although I've never heard of it actually happening!

That is useful information!

Ellieswellies I do this too - often the reaerved seats are facing wrong way or qindow aeats when you want isle seats and vice versa. I find an unreserved seat and take the reserved ticket off so the seat is free for someone else. It can't be an offence if it's your own seat can it?!

I once got onto a train, to find a party of three business-types at the table for four where I had reserved a seat. One of them was sitting in my reserved, window seat, so I decided to sit in the vacant aisle seat - only to be told that they had reserved it. I had been perfectly happy to compromise and have the aisle seat until that point, but their attitude made me decide to dig my toes in, and I said that, in that case, could the chap who,had spoken to me get out of MY reserved window seat.

I stood and looked firm, and he moved without a murmur. The best bit was that, listening to their conversation during the journey, I learned that they'd been on an Assertiveness course, but I had out-asserted them. And clearly the course hadn't covered Being Sure Of Your Facts Before Being Assertive, So You Don't End Up Looking Like A Tit.

You are lucky to actually get reservations. The last 4 or 5 times I have travelled and booked seats, the train they put on was a different formation or something and there were no reservation tickets and seat numbers that didn't match the reserved seats! Luckily, train not too busy, but annoying nevertheless.

YANBU.

I once heard about a woman who was heavily pregnant, booked seats but the guy sitting on her seat refused to get up. Shocking!

I saw a bloke with one child in a sling and a toddler have an argument with a stupid old cow once because she had occupied his 2 seats. She kept going for a good 5 minutes before she moved, with much huffing and puffing.

I agree that under normal circumstances you're right to get them to move.

However, I once got on a train and there were no reservations put up and the guard made an announcement to say that people could sit anywhere as due to a computer error reservations had not been made. I duly sat in the nearest seat with DD then age 3 only for four middle aged men to try to evict me 3 stations down the line the basis they'd reserved that table. I refused to move as there was no way I could have known and in the end lost my temper with them. Looking back I could have been more pleasant but they were being so rude I ended up responding in kind

Anna yes it is an offence even if it's your own one but like I said earlier, as long as the ticket displays only your journey then you'd be fine to do that. Often there have been people who reserve part of a journey but remove the ticket without realising the seat has been booked for the whole journey and that someone else will use it once they get off, this then could cause a problem for the second passenger whose proof of reservation has been removed from the seat.

This is why it's not differentiated within the bye laws, i.e. why it doesn't say it's ok to do it to your own reservation. However like I said, if you're 100% sure you won't use that seat for the whole journey then a conductor wouldn't see it as a problem to remove the ticket as long as it's yours. Some very diligent conductors even check reservations after each stop and remove where possible to ensure the maximum number of available seats.