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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Will an OFSTED outstanding school ensure your child gets better results?

55 replies

AppleStroodles · 21/02/2013 19:03

I'm under the (possibly misguided) impression that if you send your child to an ofsted outstanding school they will achieve more academically, aibu? Views please!

OP posts:
MammaMedusa · 21/02/2013 20:36

I thought maybe when they went into SM they had the "S" confiscated and became chools for a while.

Sugarice · 21/02/2013 20:50

My 3 ds's went to an outstanding primary and all achieved high grading SATS..

Once they hit secondary [ a good school] ds1 found his natural spot and it wasn't high achieving as he found a social life was much more important so didn't put the work in hence average gcse's [all passed but not all A's]

DS2 is more focused and looking at A* and a/b as long as all goes to plan.

ds3 is year 8 and also on course to achieve well at the highest level and he loves to work and get the best result he can achieve by himself.

It's all about what the child wants to achieve.

Clayhead · 21/02/2013 20:50

My dc moved from an Outstanding primary to a Satisfactory one - ds continued to improve as before, dd had a huge improvement as the new school just suited her better.

So, in our experience, no.

ilovecolinfirth · 21/02/2013 20:55

Take OFSTED with a pinch of salt...

Original poster
AppleStroodles · 21/02/2013 21:00

Interesting stuff!

OP posts:
Backtobedlam · 21/02/2013 21:07

I'd look round the school and judge for yourself-there is a lot of jumping through hoops to get outstanding, sometimes a 'good' school is great at teaching/getting results. We moved ds from an 'outstanding' preschool to a 'good' one, he suited the second place much better as they were more interested in him than ticking boxes. Read ofsted reports, its great to get an idea of the school, but I certainly wouldn't use them as the basis for choosing a school.

mrsbunnylove · 21/02/2013 21:08

if ofsted thinks a school is outstanding, either

a - the school is really good
b - the school is really good at blagging

ofsted will ring the school from 12 noon the day before inspection. if they don't get through, they'll turn up at 8 30 am the next day, anyway. small schools get a one-day inspection so the call might come mon-thu. average/large schools get a two day inspection so the call might come mon-wed. schools are unlikely to be called on friday because you might spend all weekend tying up loose ends.

so will your child/ren do better?

if its a great school, they have more opportunities to enjoy learning, have their horizons stretched etc. a 'great' school might not get outstanding from ofsted.

but at gcse, attendance and attitude are more important than ability. parental attitude is important throughout.

so if you care about your child's work, think its right for you to take an interest in their progress, keep in touch with teachers, show your child you want them to do well and show appreciation of their efforts and achievement, give them time, space and encouragement to do their work, they will do better than if you leave it all to the school.

FamiliesShareGerms · 21/02/2013 21:09

The right school (ie the one where you think your DC will thrive and enjoy attending) is so much more than an Ofsted report

Eg we chose a single form "Good with outstanding features" over the three form and soon to be expanding to four or five form "Outstanding" school.

exoticfruits · 21/02/2013 21:17

It is possible to get outstanding on very good paper work.
I would ignore it and visit. You need the school that fits your DC- it can be really outstanding and not suit your DC at all.

Original poster
AppleStroodles · 21/02/2013 21:30

The thing is you can't always choose the school that suits your DC due to catchment areas. We had two choices, I don't think we would have got a place anywhere further afield.

OP posts:
ilovecolinfirth · 21/02/2013 21:40

I agree that you should visit a school and that is more important than OFSTED , however it's highly unlikely a school get outstanding on its paperwork alone.

I reckon you take what OFSTED says with a pinch of salt because different children thrive in different environments. There are many factors which will affect how well your child does. OFSTED doesn't measure the number of As a child gets (secondary example), it measures the progress the children make.

exoticfruits · 21/02/2013 21:53

It alone but I know 2Heads that I would call poor who are excellent at paperwork and both got outstanding- I wouldn't send my DS to either.
Parental choice is a myth- what it really means is 'parental choice IF there is room' - if it is a school with an outstanding Ofsted and outside your catchment area then you may find it impossible to get a place.

exoticfruits · 21/02/2013 21:54

Sorry -not alone.

montmartre · 21/02/2013 21:57

One of my previous schools has an Outstanding OFSTED rating... but it's a PRU- parents are hardly beating a path to our door! Wink

WorriedTeenMum · 21/02/2013 22:14

Looking at it from the other end of the spectrum - an unutterably crap school - has not meant that my highly academic DDs got taken less academic. DD1 left this school with all A*s and As at GCSE.

What you get in an atrociously managed school is the HT's inability to ensure that staff are well led and that basic standards are met (like entering students for the correct exams). On the other hand the HT will focus on trivia like full compliance with uniform rules.

A dedicated, able and organised student will be able to do well at whatever school. A good school will make the whole thing easier. A poor school makes it far harder.

Shagmundfreud · 21/02/2013 22:20

I took my dd out of an 'outstanding' school and put her in a school which was merely 'good'.

The 'outstanding' school this year got 80% of its kids 5 gcses or equivalent, including maths and English, and that's with an intake where only 28% of the children were deemed 'high achieving' on joining the school in year 7.

The school she's at now gets worse results with a better cohort (36% high achieving).

I hated her old school. High staff turnover, ruthless shoving of kids onto BTECS if they showed any signs of flagging at GCSE, aggressive student culture. pompous, arrogant head.

Her new school is scruffy but emotionally warm. The teachers are kind. It's a much nicer place to be and more likely to nurture my dd.

LittleEdie · 21/02/2013 22:28

Probably.

exoticfruits · 21/02/2013 22:51

If you can get into an 'outstanding' school easily when you are not in the catchment it is probably because the local parents know what it is really like!
Visiting is the only way to make a decision.

happilyconfused · 21/02/2013 22:58

No. I teach at a good school. The local outstanding gets excellent results partly due to my school's science, maths and mfl teachers tutoring them! Lots of tutors also at the satisfactory school as well.

OFSTED should do a hands up - who has got tutor

BacktoworkonMonday · 22/02/2013 09:06

I work in a school whose results are better than the national average and the LEA average (LEA has higher than Nat, average results overall) at KS2, including higher than Nat. average and higher than LEA average at level 5 and above. We have always been higher than average ever since I started working there. Our last OFSTED put us in special measures. They saw many good and several outstanding lessons. But they also saw one that was deemed inadequate. The inadequate feature of the lesson were noted in another observation by a different member of the OFSTED team, as a positive rather than a negative feature. They were not interested in a balanced view of the school and its overall achievements. They were only looking to tick certain boxes. That's why our OFSTED report focussed on leadership and management which was found to be lacking. They didn't look at children's work, weren't interested in any of the (many) positive features of our school. Were not interested in the children's attainment.

I know that it is easy for me to say we should not be in SM - I would say that, wouldn't I? But when the advisors who are appointed to come in and help us move out of SM are all saying they really don't understand why we are in that situation and they are stumped for ideas because what they are seeing is a school that is doing well and in their opinion is actually good with outstanding features, it is hard to think the decision was anything other than political. Even our executive head, brought in to 'save' us, has said they do not know what OFSTED want - and they are still an active OFSTED inspector!

I and most other members of staff, truly believe that there was only ever going to be one outcome from our inspection, to put us in SM so we could be forced into becoming an academy. Which is what is now happening.

So, to your original question. do I believe that an 'outstanding' school will automatically bring better results? No, I do not.

PolkadotCircus · 22/02/2013 09:27

Not all schools stay Outstanding it's not a badge for life.Ours went from Outstanding to Satisfactory recently so you should never pick a school just on it's Ofsted report.

HollyBerryBush · 22/02/2013 09:33

Schools go up and down. Just because it is good or outstanding now does not guarantee it will be in 3/5/7 years. Heads change, staff change, you can have a spectacularly bright year group to enhance statistics, or a spectacularly under achieving group.

The smaller the school the more one pupil affects statistics. Eg one persisant truant in a cohort of 150 has a massive impact, where as one in a cohort of 300 would be barely noticable. Ditto with a small option up take. Only 30 pupils taking X subject and 5 of them have a SN, compared to a popular subject that can 'hide' poor performers statistically.

Parents are not very good at reading behind statistics, they just look at headline figures.

exoticfruits · 22/02/2013 09:46

Even Ofsted change the criteria!

juneau · 22/02/2013 10:11

I would think an OFSTED outstanding school has great teaching and great facilities and that your child therefore has more of an opportunity to fulfil his/her potential. However, your child will still need to apply him/herself and you will need to support/encourage as you would at any school. You can give someone opportunities, but you cannot force them to make the most of them.

exoticfruits · 22/02/2013 12:09

You can send your DC to Eton- and they can still fail. The school can deliver- the DC has to make an effort.