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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think when Universal Credit comes in, it will lead to more benefit fraud and people working cash in hand?

27 replies

MoodyDidIt · 21/02/2013 14:39

i think lots of people will just sign off it and work cash in hand. i already know a few people in my own social circle who are part of a couple and cba with the faff of tax credits (even as they are now,) and do cash in hand work, all sorts, childcare, cleaning, hairdressing

and i also think that couples who have until then relied on tax credits if ones a SAHP and the other one is working but doesn't earn much, well i suspect some of them may well end up "splitting up" and the mum ends up pretending to bea lone parent.

not saying any of its right btw before anyone jumps on me! i just really think it will happen loads more than it does now.

OP posts:
MrsJREwing · 21/02/2013 14:44

eh!?

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 21/02/2013 14:44

I agree, people will do what is necessary to make ends meet. Survival of the fittest and all that. I don't think it will change anything though, not in the short term.

ophelia275 · 21/02/2013 14:49

YABU.

So, nothing should ever change because some people might cheat? I think we are desperately in need of a radical overhaul of the welfare state and there will always be people who cheat the system. It does need to change though.

ProphetOfDoom · 21/02/2013 14:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feminine · 21/02/2013 14:53

It will be a complete disaster.

I'm quite scared how it will impact ordinary working families.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/02/2013 14:57

YANBU. Anyone who is self employed and is in receipt of tax credits is in trouble.

Universal credit is going to push more people over the edge onto poverty. More poverty = more crime as people are more desperate.

Meglet · 21/02/2013 15:01

Actually I suspect yanbu.

It looks like a total balls up waiting to happen.

Jibberoo · 21/02/2013 15:11

i think that benefits def needs shaking up - there will be those that cheat and those that dont but things do need to change. and maybe people realising that its actually easier to work will create a mindset change. The problem is that people believe that certain work is below them and arent prepared to do what it takes to earn a living or to move to find work if necessary. We all whine about the immigrants coming in but they have just demonstrated that there are jobs out there if you are prepared to work hard and move your family to find work.
personally even though i qualify for a range of benefits i am not and will not apply for them. The hoops you have to jump through for a few quid is ridiculous and probably would cost me more than i would get (child care for working more hours etc). but i understand that I am fortunate enough that we can live on our small salary.
i also understand that for some people benefits are the only solution right now and thats fine but it shouldnt be a long term solution especially if you are able to work. if these people that you mention can find cash in hand work then they obviously dont need the benefits and hopefully will be found out so that someone more in need receives them

Feminine · 21/02/2013 15:21

The Government needs to give all families a basic amount that it is possible to survive on.

It should then be made possible to 'top it up' by going to work.

A basic amount for all. Regardless of income.

A lot more families would go out go work, and then those that choose to live on the basic amount can!

Original poster
MoodyDidIt · 21/02/2013 15:47

deffo agree with you there feminine (both your posts)

and ophelia i am not saying things shouldn't (or should) change, just saying what i believe will happen

they want people in work paying taxes and not claiming benefits; well i think people WILL stop claiming (when they get sick of having to go and "sign on" with the prospect of them having their money stopped constantly hanging over them) ....but they won't be paying taxes cos they will be working cash in hand. so the govt may have saved a few quid in UC payouts but they won't be getting anything back in tax

OP posts:
CloudsAndTrees · 21/02/2013 16:06

They get very little if anything back in tax anyway from the people you are talking about, especially as the income tax threshold has gone up.

Booyhoo · 21/02/2013 16:10

i agree with feminine

Booyhoo · 21/02/2013 16:13

although i dont think it should be a 'family' amount, rather an 'individual adult' amount as there isn't a 'standard' family. obviously with extra for those that have disabilities etc.

andubelievedthat · 21/02/2013 16:51

move 2 get work ? yes ,done that and the basic costs are >1 months rent and a big fat deposit ,unempoyment benifit is the level you need to survive ob ,not survive and save,people who work cash in hand are indeed doing the "survival of fittest method ,in my terribly terribly working class neighbourhood they are Entrepreneurs. and long may they prosper.A bit like our MP"s and ,>>>you think the expenses carry one was a piss take ? if people studied MP"s entitlement once in the Palace Of Westminster ,there would be a bloody uprising.(cue bum faced squeezed middle posting now ,re THEIR ? tax)

Latara · 21/02/2013 17:12

Our local council said on their Facebook Page that:

''we have set aside a Relief Fund for those who will need assistance from April when the new Benefit Changes take place'' - basically those exempted from HB & CTB etc....

Scary that even our local Tory council acknowledge things will be that bad!!!

Melpomene · 22/02/2013 00:24

The government have made a big song and dance about how universal credit will mean people are better off in work.

At present, many people working part time on low incomes can get some help towards mortgage costs through their benefits. Under universal credit, that will no longer be possible - if you do ANY paid work you won't be able to get help towards mortgage costs. (The rules are different for rent and working people will still be able to get help with their rent.)

How is that an incentive to work? If anyone is claiming for help with their mortgage and then gets offered a small amount of low paid work they will have the choice of turning down the work, declaring they are working and being worse off overall, or working cash in hand and not declaring it. I suspect many will choose the latter option.

IneedAsockamnesty · 22/02/2013 00:31

They do check though & stop payment instantly which can be a rude shock to your bank account and ask you to provide the relevant information later. My STBExH is still on the mortgage documentation and I had to provide details of his current location & even his rental agreement.

No you didn't, its against there own rules to make you provide that info. What you mean is they asked and you didnt ask advice on the matter

Darkesteyes · 22/02/2013 00:45

I think that people who have never broken the law in their lives will end up turning to crime to make ends meet if the choice is either that or you and your children starving.

RedHelenB · 22/02/2013 08:24

I thought if you got working tax credit then you weren't eligible for help with mortgage costs anyway? Also even on job seekers allowance you only get it for a maximum of 2 years,

ProphetOfDoom · 22/02/2013 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IneedAsockamnesty · 22/02/2013 12:34

Turn to us,cab,community legal advice, and any of the the free benefit advice services around.

They are gits for asking for stuff they know they are not allowed to. If you google tax credit claiment compliance staff manuals. Or swop tax credit for dwp you can read both of them online and they are very clear about what they can ask you to show them and what they can't.

Original poster
MoodyDidIt · 22/02/2013 13:45

5 months to be paid schmaltzing thats awful Shock

OP posts:
ProphetOfDoom · 22/02/2013 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom · 22/02/2013 14:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IneedAsockamnesty · 22/02/2013 15:17

They could have asked you to provide copies of any bank statements utility bills benefit awards or wage slips for the entire year that have your name on them. They cannot ask you to provide any documents that you dont have the legal right to ask the company to provide such as anything in another persons name.

They can ask who lives in your house and how many bedrooms you have they cannot ask who sleeps where.

They can ask

how your bills are paid and if anybody gives you any money
How childcare is devided
How you socialise with a named person
If you make plans with a named person
If you go on holiday with them
If you share household chores
What your friends and family think your relationship is (but they can only ask you this)

If people volunteer info they can use it but they cannot actively seek it.

If you still have tenancy ect in joint names this cannot be used as evidence of cohabiting as long as your bank statements show that you independently finance your own life AND you state he no longer lives with you and they have nothing to imply you are lying about this.

Certain people get targeted every year by TC investigations this is because they have a computer system that has a list of groups most likely to commit fraud (single parents between the ages of 24-40 are one of these groups) the computer fires off a % of the names in this group to be investigated

But should you get investigated every year for say 5 years without good reason and never be found to do anything wrong then they can be prevented from continuing it.