To think the NHS should stop spending £4 million a year on Homeopathy ?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Have been on the IVF thread in discussions of the day where understandably the issue of the NHS's scare resources and how these should best be spent came up.
Someone mentioned Homeopathy as one questionable area which currently recieves NHS funds.

Having googled the subject I found out that the NHS does indeed fund 4 Homeopathic hospitals in London, Bristol, Liverpool, and Glasgow, and spends £4 million a year on homeopathic treatments.

Having been a psychiatric nurse myself I recognise the value of taking a holistic approach to health and the value of counseling as an approach.
But I feel that the very unscientific and old-fashioned beliefs of homeopathy really have no place in an over-stretched 21st century NHS.
I'd be happy to see the hospitals converted to a simple holistic and counseling approach instead.

So what do you think and ....
AIBU ?!

Oh and I was also sent to the pain clinic (where you go to manage pain and assess if you need stronger painkillers) I really needed stronger painkillers and would spend my days crying, the woman I seen was very good friends with the homeopathy guy and a supporter herself and would only send me for counselling.

I asked to be re referred as I wanted a second opinion, waited ages and they sent me to the same bloody woman!

Homeopathy in the NHS is dangerous, not just because of wasted money but because supporters can hinder proper treatment.

Ooh, my first YABU

Personally I think doctor's should have the integrity to suggest counselling etc, explaining that it can be very beneficial to take a holistic approach to our health.
They can also talk about many other things that may well be helpful such as diet and exercise.

All better options to my mind than sending their patients down to the homeopathic hospital for discredited treatments they don't believe in themselves !

ive used homoeopathic remedies before for me and my children,they have always been really successful.

I do feel its something which you should pay for privately though didn't know the nhs had anything to do with it,ive always paid through a private practitioner.

A friend had a child aged 3 with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Friend took her son (privately) to a well qualified homeopath - she was very sceptical but desperate as no standard medicine was working. It worked exactly as the homeopath described, and she was amazed. He is now a man of 28 and still takes his homeopathic pills if he starts getting a flare up. (Which could still occur if he was on standard drugs such as methotrexate btw, there is no cure as yet).

He was a small child so there could not have been a placebo effect, also there are homeopathic vets - a cow with mastitis does not know if it's homeopathy or not...

I'm on the fence tbh, I work in a medical setting and understand the need for evidence based medicine, but sometimes treatments are just more subtle and harder to define, but work.

It is total rubbish and does not work. It is fucking outrageous that we spend money on this when people are dying of other conditions where we could actually help them if we spend money in different areas.

YADNBU. The NHS also funds anthroposophical medicine which advocates not immunising children until the age of two!!!?? Many anthroposophical medicines have no evidence to back them up. Crazy!

Mind you can you imagine the uproar of the self righteous pushy middle class if they stopped funding it?

4 mill might not be alot compated to the entire budget but its still 4 mill that could go towards something that actually works.

Yanbu

If people want to see a homeopath privately then I have no problem with that. If it's something they believe may help them they may well be right, though I think that's mainly because of the holistic care offered by their practitioner (I don't personally believe the pills will really make any difference other than from the placebo effect)

But like other alternative therapies if you want to try it then by all means go ahead.

But I don't think it should be effectively officially endorsed through the NHS, and given NHS funding.

By the way further on-line research suggests that the London homeopathic hospital may have closed ? Leaving 3 remaining ones elsewhere in the country I believe.

'Which could still occur if he was on standard drugs such as methotrexate btw, there is no cure as yet).

I was going to answer this - but words fail me. Except to say, as someone who also has a chronic inflammatory condition, it makes you a sitting duck for any old charlatan out there.
OP- UA NBU.

YANBU

Juggling The homeopathic hospital I was sent to was in Glasgow.

I also wasn't given pills, just compared to a plant and told that my emotions are causing me pain.

The waiting list was forever btw.

YABU. So you can only have a choice to receive complementary therapies if you can afford them?

Does this mean you have an evidence base for every single treatment currently being provided by the NHS? If so great I have a list of questions for you!

Some people find it helpful and some don't but for those who do and can't afford it it's a lifeline.

I'm a GP and the patients I know who have used it don't care that it's not evidence based, they care that it's available and helps them. They couldn't care less whether it's the therapeutic relationship or placebo, it works which is all that matters.

If you're going to insist on wiping out non evidence based treatments in the NHS then good luck to you, there will be little left.

£4 million is nothing when you look at money being wasted on unnecessary procedures.

Dollyinadub I can't explain how annoyed your post makes me. As a long term and educated sufferer of RA I know how dangerous and irreversibly damaging stupidity like this can be and it always astounds me when it is spouted as a viable solution.

Homeopathy is NOT just for the middle classes! It does work and if used effectively could save the NHS plenty. 4m is a tiny amount given the NHS's overall budget!

Most people interested in using homeopathy go directly to private practitioners - many of whom offer cut rates in order to help everyone.

The London Homeopathic Hospital is now The Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medecine so it offers various services and not just homeopathy.

I heard a radio programme about this a while ago. A doctor on there was saying that it is a good solution for a lot of people who really just want attention and a placebo.

I can kind of see the point in that, though I think people should be told "there's no evidence this works better than a placebo, but placebos do work a bit, and it makes a lot of people feel better."

However the NHS should make it completely clear that it has no scientific basis.

I used the Helios box for pregnancy and birth, I am not completely close minded to the idea.

I don't think it has any place as a treatment for serious conditions though. I've been suffering from various subluxations and dislocations daily for many years. To be sent to the loon I was sent to and refused the treatment that would help pain associated with the condition is ridiculous.

So why is it necessary to fund entire hospitals specifically for homeopathy? Can it not be done through trained GPs - that has got to be a cheaper way of doing it if it is going to be funded?

I believe the placebo effect is very strong and probably could be recreated quite easily in a GP environment for little cost?

I think a lot of the powerful placebo effect of homeopathy comes from the consultation, so the referral works better than just getting some sugar pills out. Especially if the GP (as you would hope) thinks they are nonsense!

I'm very interested and surprised to read your post lyndie, where it appears that, though a GP, you don't really even seem to aspire to the offering of evidence based treatments !
I'd be interested to know what other non evidence based treatments are currently on offer within the NHS ?!

BTW I'm sure that you do seek the best interests of your patients, it's just that this seems slightly misguided to me.

"It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it's memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!"

Had to quote Tim Minchin, I think this most accurately summaries my opinion on Homeopathy, quite frankly the NHS should have better priorities than satisfying the needs of paranoid narcissists.

What makes you think I don't aspire to evidence based medicine?

Daily I get letters from hospital colleagues asking me to prescribe drugs that have no evidence base - some of which aren't even in the BNF yet!

Nice poem Jabberwocky

See, I think we should look after paranoid narcissists, just not in this way

Surely though those drugs your colleagues are asking you to prescribe have some anecdotal evidence base, or are related to other drugs known to be effective lyndie ? Perhaps there's just not yet enough evidence for them to be included in the BNF ?

lyndie how can people possibly not afford homeopathic treatments? They are free! You can make your own with water and ...well actually just water at the end of the day. Thats the point.

There is one indisputable truth..anyone charging for a homeopathy treatment is a con artist.

And that's my point precisely, we may not have the evidence but we still have to keep doing it because it helps people. That last ditch round of chemo? Expensive, probably won't work but we'll try it.

Amazing how many people have religious beliefs despite there being no evidence. Should we stop respecting those within the NHS because we have no evidence? Could save a few bob on chaplains, halal meals......