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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the Beyonce ad is ludicrously self indulgent?!

149 replies

steben · 20/02/2013 20:21

It is isn't it? Not just me? I really like her and her music but come on.

OP posts:
Boomerwang · 21/02/2013 16:48

Her kid has straight black hair and no noticeable negro facial characteristics. That's more spooky I think.

Fillyjonk75 · 21/02/2013 16:48

I thought being self indulgent was the point. Marie-Antoinette theme.

Boomerwang · 21/02/2013 16:48

Uh I just realised 'negro' is probably a slur and I absolutely would like to retract that word and replace it with 'black'

Naysa · 21/02/2013 17:07

I'm not talking about this ad when I talk about her skin lightening. I saw a picture of her on facebook and didn't believe it was here.

Just a couple of quick examples:

This is the picture I saw and couldn't believe it was her

Comparison picture

Another comparison

Beyonce "before"

I'm well aware of how different lighting and makeup works btw, and I don't think that can be put down to bright light. Daylight does not make someone with dark skin look white.

GothAnneGeddes · 21/02/2013 17:09

What?

How on earth is claiming that Beyonce's entire career is just that "she can put one foot in front of the other, sexily" a feminist viewpoint? No, a statement like that is a supercilious insult masquerading as insight.

For a really good overview of Beyonce from a race and feminist perspective, I recommend this: www.racialicious.com/2013/02/08/racialicious-crushes-of-the-week-beyonce-bibi-and-tina/

I'm struggling to find the links now, but certainly when Single Ladies came out, there was quite a lot of discussion about the song in the Black feminist blogosphere, particularly regarding black women and marriage and it was a whole other perspective.

Naysa · 21/02/2013 17:11

Oh btw, I love Beyonce's music, I just think that it's sad that she is seen as a strong black role model yet she is skin bleaching.

Fillyjonk75 · 21/02/2013 17:23

I thought she looked very pale too, glad it wasn't just me. In fact I had no idea it was Beyonce as she looked so different, the first few times I saw it.

chibi · 21/02/2013 17:31

how do you know she is bleaching her skin? it seems weird to repeat that kind of assertion without any proof at all

i know my skin appears different in colour depending on what time of year it is, whether i am ill, the lighting etc etc etc

Naysa · 21/02/2013 17:50

Have you seen the pictures?

Everyone's skin changes due to the time of year.

Beyonce's father is African American, he mother is a mix of African, Native American. I highly doubt that a change of season would make her appear Caucasian.

chibi · 21/02/2013 18:16

she has not ever looked caucasian Confused

magazines etc edit and Photoshop pics to suit their own agenda- a major example was Time magazine darkening OJ Simpson's mugshot to make him look darker.

the most recent footage of her performing at the superbowl or 'performing' (ha!) at Obama's inauguration show her skin looking much as it always has

BigSpork · 21/02/2013 18:24

Women of Colour have been whitewashed in photography by the media - digitally and with lighting effects - for a long time. Because lighter equals more power. here are a few examples involving plenty of women who do not use skin lightening products who end up appearing very light, and many to the point of appearing White, usually when their pictures are out of their own hands. Also, most White photographers have no idea how to light Women of Colour well leaving a paler look.

I'm not a big fan, prefer much of earlier work in Destiny's Child, particularly her song on consent, and am not her target demographic, but a lot of things Beyonce's written, spoken about, and many of her other works are so overlooked and she's more targetted than others who do similar (Much like Taylor Swift writes about her relationships in her music and it's 'her way of growing and coping with it', but Rihanna does the same and it's apparently glorifying her abuse).

And Naysa, you can just use the word White or if you need a similar term to the others, European. The term Caucasian was invited by a crazed, racist German scientist who tried to divide the world into the good light skinned people (Caucasians) and the rest (Mongoloids), to couch his racism in scientific terms. Apparently, he didn't know his geography well as the Caucas mountains, mostly in the Armenian Highlands, are mostly populated by People of Colour and using Caucasian to mean White people erases their existence. White people didn't come from there, there is no evidence that the mutation that caused white skin came from that region. Also, if you read your history, most Black people in the States (and other heavily colonized areas) will have White heritage due to the high rate and purposeful rape of Black women.

chibi · 21/02/2013 18:26

thank you big spork for saying it wayyyyyy better than i did

BigSpork · 21/02/2013 18:27

Also, the band that played at Obama's original inauguration was performing to music - they weren't actually playing their instruments. It's always that way as performing in freezing cold January weather in a big crowd with touchy electronics is always risky. It's still her voice, it was still her singing just as much as it was the band playing. I do not see why it is a big deal other than to make her look bad.

Naysa · 21/02/2013 18:32

When did I say that Beyonce doesn't have white heritage? I've already posted that her mum's ethnicity includes european.

And excuse me for not brushing up on my nazi lingustic history before posting. Please forgive me Hmm

Naysa · 21/02/2013 18:35

Also the picture was taken in natural light.

I'm not disputing that photographs are edited.

The one of beyonce looking very pale, I believe, has not been edited.

I stand by my opinion that she is fairer now than when she first started out.

Boomerwang · 21/02/2013 18:58

I've never seen anyone with such white legs, apart from Nicole Kidman and Nicola Roberts. 'time of year' my ass.

BigSpork · 21/02/2013 19:00

The scientist is from the late 1700/late 1800s, when the formation of race (rather than ethnicity/nationhood), racism, and racist science was being formulated to excuse slavery and colonizing and white superiority in policy, which still affect us today. Nazis used the term Aryan to mean White (which again, proves lack of knowledge and geography as Aryan covers most of India). I was attempting to inform you of the origin of the term, how out of date the term is and why it harmful, not to put you down.

My skin is noticeably darker than it was ten years ago. I don't tan, use fake tanner or any make-up, and my choice of attire covers all but my hands, neck and face. My hair has also gotten darker. It's just how I've naturally aged as a mixed race woman - my kids find my baby photos where I pass as White to be odd. When I was pregnant and just afterwards I became very pale, and I look far paler in yellow-flash photography than I normally do and most photographers do not know that how paling it is and that differing the colour of the flash dramatically changes the skin tone (most darker skin women look better and less whitewashed in blue flash, red flash can work wonders for others, most flash in normal cameras are slightly yellow which favours and makes skin more White even in daylight).

Surely, more should be focused on the media and society that pushes Women of Colour to be White than to be tearing her a part for fitting into that image (because Women of Colour who haven't don't get the screen time or are only put into subserviant/deviant roles). Her writings on consent and women being able to pick their partners, her lifting up the most multi-racial all female band into Superbowl spotlight - the White American homeland, her latest documentary discussing her marriage and her need for women friends and her openness, these are far more matters for role models and feminism than whether or not she chooses (even if coerced by the media) to appear sexy or to follow White House tradition of having her singing recorded for the big day rather than play live just as all the other main acts have done before her and were never torn apart for. I'm mixed race, I know the boons of passing as White, she'll get more power and media time for it and torn a part for it at the same time - she might as well do what she wants - and she's obviously successful at it - because she'll be fed to the dogs both ways.

chibi · 21/02/2013 19:02

ok, despite no evidence whatsoever you believe the photos are not edited

i respectfully disagree, so that is that i guess

the idea that magazines are editing photos (for which they have form) is to me infinitely more plausible than the idea that beyonce is lightening and then darkening and then relightening her skin and again and again, within fairly narrow timescales

but, clearly to you it is not

swooosh · 21/02/2013 19:05

Boomerwang ill assume you're talking about her DDs newborn pictures and this is her most recent photo...

Blue Ivy

swooosh · 21/02/2013 19:07

Also if you take a look at her and her sister together they are very alike (skin colour)

Don't see what the big deal is? Like I say I've seen her before and she doesn't look as light as EDITED photos do.

PuffPants · 21/02/2013 19:17

She strikes me as a narcissist.

Did you know she is the first woman in the western world to give birth? And that when he became the father of a daughter, her DH decided to stop calling women bitches and whores in his "songs". What a stand up guy.

FryOneFatManic · 21/02/2013 19:45

As a white woman I look forward to the day when skin colour is no longer an issue. I have noticed over the years that lighter skinned people of colour were treated differently in the media, better even that those with darker skin. And yet, some of the most heartbreakingly beautiful women I have ever seen have been quite dark. I am raising my DCs to see beyond colour and consider people as the individuals they are.

However, Beyonce's music is not to my taste, prefer metal.

colleysmill · 21/02/2013 20:22

I'm probably an advertisers nightmare but I just didn't understand the advert. I posted on pg 1 that I had no idea what it was advertising and until this thread no idea that Beyonce was touring! I didn't even realise it was Beyonce until dh pointed it out.

But then perfume adverts are also a mystery to me too - very fancy adverts where the message is not crystal, in your face clear tend to pass me by or leave me a bit befuddled (like this ad!)

BigSpork · 21/02/2013 20:40

But my skin colour is part of who I am as an individual. It affects my entire reality and how the world relates to me. If you don't see skin colour, you'll miss the extra burdens placed by it and the racist and colourist problems with the system get overlooked.

No one tells their kids we need to see beyond sex, to not see men and women but people, we tell them that women can do anything and look for role models, women they can identify with, and media that represents women well regardless if our children are boys or girls. We recognise there are extra issues that women face and discuss those issues appropriately with them hopefully. The same should be done for race and colour - actively talking about how we can do anything, we need more representation - both for children of colour and for white children, so that people can see it in action (people let their guard down more around fiction than non-fiction, fictional representation matters a lot) and real recognition of the problems face by People of Colour due to colonization and the legacy of white supremacy. Even simple things like finding dolls, colouring books, stickers, media with someone that looks like you is another level of microaggravation (I've had to import all of the above at one point or another to get access them, I spent hours the other day trying to find a doll for my daughter after hearing her pine once again for blonde hair) to the larger issues of media literacy. We show how pictures make women look thinner/a level of perfection beyond reach, it should also show how they make Women of Colour lighter and why that is. We need to confront it, not see beyond it, if it's ever going to be changed and made better.

FakePlasticLobsters · 21/02/2013 20:44

That advert is for her tour?

I thought she had replaced Barbara Windsor as the Jackpot Joy Queen. I really did!

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