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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To believe that you are innocent until found guilty in court

123 replies

wonderwoman2012 · 16/02/2013 22:26

Very sad to find that so many people think that if charged with child abuse someone is guilty.

The words child abuse make us all go cold and I am the first to think death is to good. However it gets like a witch hunt ever time someone is accused.

I say change the law to make only those found guilty put all over the press.

I have a relative accused at present and waiting to go to court. In our case so much local support from friends and relatives but not everyone has that. (The accuser is the one who has spread it about where we live, not us).

I know people feel they would want to now but surely you only let people you trust around your children.

If charged people can not work with kids and it is normal for bail to include not being around/alone with under 16s.

OP posts:
chickensarmpit · 17/02/2013 01:25

Yes! My brother and his friends were accused of rape my neighbour. She called the police and blabbed his name in the streets. He had a brilliant alibi. He was fighting for his country in Iraq. If he hadn't, he would of been dragged to the police station and finger printed. That bitch of a neighbour was not charged for lying. She has a serious mental disorder and continues to throw accusations of rape, racism etc.. Our lives are just peachy waiting for the next knock on the door from the police.

DeepRedBetty · 17/02/2013 01:28

Wonderwoman I don't think you should be talking about this stuff here, there are people who feel pretty judgey for all sorts of very good reasons. Please get Victim Support and your GP on board. You're obviously very stressed out by all this.

Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 01:38

Thank you for getting back on topic.

Innocent before Crown meaning until the crown says otherwise!

Not the media

I think that maybe none bias reporting would help. Report the fact and photo even but stop the gossip (a close family friend says this etc)

I was thinking no news coverage until found guilty but as one post pointed out some cases need past 'victims' (I hate that word but that is for another thread) to come forward.

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 17/02/2013 01:45

I agree that someone is innocent until proven guilty. But releasing the name after conviction isnt always ok either imo.

My friend had a horrible situation where a family member was convicted of familial child abuse (it didnt involve her children thankfully, but very close child relatives) but because they have an unusual surname they were the subject of as much (if not more) gossip than the abuser.
They tried to keep his name out of the papers to protect the abused children who share his surname, but the judge refused. :(

Children are far more likely to be abused by a family member than a stranger, and it is horrible that their right to anonymity is removed because it is in the public interest to release the name of the abuser.

Bogeyface · 17/02/2013 01:47

Wonder its sad but true that if the Jimmy Saville case hadnt had the coverage it did then many of his victims, who weren't believed or were too frightened to come forward, would have stayed silent.

Its so hard to balance it. Is it better to sacrifice the right to anonymity of victims (potentially) in order to uncover the full extent of an abusers crimes? Or do the proven victims deserve to keep what little privacy they have?

Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 01:56

We were wondering at one stage if we could get a closed court (no media) but as the children are not involved in the case judge would probably say no. Only normally happens if the child is related to the abuser and still a child. If the media say father abused son and give fathers name everyone would no the victim.

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 17/02/2013 01:58

Thats almost exactlywhat happened Wonder Everyone knew that he abused children in his family, so there was obviously gossip about which children it was, all of the victims were under 16, some were still under 10 :(

Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 02:13

Sounds like in your case they should of had a closed court. I really feel for you. People don't understand the ripple effect on families.

The children in the family that where not abused have now also been badly affected in your example. The trouble is these cases need to be handled far more carefully than they currently are (by cps, police and media).

The abused have to come first of course but everyone else can not be fed to the dogs.

OP posts:
SoldAtAuction · 17/02/2013 03:20

OP, you say you hate the word 'victims'. Really? If a child is raped, does that not make them a victim? Do you prefer the term survivor?

Isityouorme · 17/02/2013 08:10

If you Google people who have been charged with child abuse, none of them seem innocent to me. Admittedly there are people who lie. How will you feel if your relative is found guilty .... Will you just think he has had an unfair conviction? You don't know what the evidence is against him at the moment? You are putting lots of faith in his innocence and based on other cases, you will get hurt.

People dealing with child Abuse have a hard job, listening to accounts of what happened, seeing photos, watching videos etc. they would be justified in feeding convicted child abuser's to the dogs IMO.

HollyBerryBush · 17/02/2013 08:13

What will you do, OP, if your relative is found guilty? You seem to have invested a lot of emotional input into him being found not guilty.

TheFallenNinja · 17/02/2013 08:21

I think that there is a complete misunderstanding of the term arrest.

The broad belief is that people get arrested because they are guilty when this is not the case. How often do you hear the threat "I'll have you arrested"

Arrest as I understand it is simply holding someone to administer the law, not to determine guilt. Equally, the police aren't there to pass judgement, they are there to gather evidence when an accusation has been made. The decision to prosecute is with the CPS and the power of judgement is with the courts.

BumpingFuglies · 17/02/2013 08:45

What happens if the accused has already been convicted of similar offences? Does that negate their rights to anonymity? And does it change perceptions of guilt before trial? My thoughts would be yes.

Isityouorme · 17/02/2013 09:09

The OP says her relative has been charged which means there is sufficient evidence to warrant it going to court. That is more serious than just being arrested.

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo · 17/02/2013 09:46

DHs grandfathers partner has found herself in this type of situation. Her son has been charged with sexual abuse of his wife's DGD. He was discovered when she (the dgd) told
Her nan. Police found images o her in the shower as well as other inappropriate images. He reckons he has been framed.. Not even remotely believable is it?

Despite this his mother (DH grandads partner) has allowed him to move in with her, and DH GD has actively chosen him over his own family, for example when MIL said he was not welcome in her house (as we have DC who regularly visit, and SIL only 16) the grandfather was aggrieved.

I think the GD goes along with his partner for an easy life ( he has history of rather shameful behaviour IMO) and I guess she wants to see the best in him as her son.
Ive not met him but the family that have, at the time this came out, all commented on how they "knew he was strange"... I on the other hand never warmed to the partner and can honestly say, that even though it is wrong, this has coloured my view of her.

They are a strange

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo · 17/02/2013 09:48

...bunch but this does go to show what i think is a widespread opinion / reaction to this type of offence

hermioneweasley · 17/02/2013 09:55

If there is enough evidence to charge and bring a prosecution then I would judge that person and never let them near my kids.

Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 18:16

Soldatauction -Survivor is a much better word than victim. To call someone a victim when they have stood up and been so strong to speak out is wrong. Still I would maybe say I survived my abusive marriage but I am a person who experienced domestic violence. A bit of a mouthful I know. Maybe its just me and the V word.

OP posts:
Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 18:32

Understandable hermioneweasley but what if I was 'say' your sister. What if her work meant she was not there during this period of time. That the only way that this abuse was possible would be for yourself to be a couple of years younger than you are.

I would never have someone in my home that I was not sure about. Social services would not allow that to happen for a start. They have no problem with him being around my children. The police bail says not allow with children under 16. That will stay until court.

OP posts:
Original poster
wonderwoman2012 · 17/02/2013 18:33

Should say not allowed alone with children under 16

OP posts:
MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 17/02/2013 21:52

Evening. Thanks to those who've reported this thread.

wonderwoman2012, we do sympathise with your situation but we do have to warn you that anything you post on Mumsnet - which is an open, Google-indexed forum - could be used in evidence in any ongoing court proceedings.

We're also worried that your posts may inadvertently reveal information that could identify members of your family. We've deleted one post from this thread for you, as a precaution.

We'll drop you a line to explain further...

waltermittymissus · 17/02/2013 21:58

Helen what do you lovely HQ types think of the thread with regard to MN's We Believe You stance?

MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 17/02/2013 22:12

@waltermittymissus

Helen what do you lovely HQ types think of the thread with regard to MN's We Believe You stance?

We would stand by our pledge to say 'we believe you' to those reporting abuse.

That doesn't mean we can't also feel sympathy for family members who are struggling to deal with the fallout.

waltermittymissus · 17/02/2013 22:18

I would always feel sympathy too, there's always so many more victims of crimes like this than most people comprehend.

However, some of the posts have been a little uncomfortable to read. I haven't reported but I may do now, so you can see what I'm talking about! :)

waltermittymissus · 17/02/2013 22:21

Ah - seems they've already disappeared! HQ is too fast for me! Blush :)