to think my DS should maybe have given this kid a good shove back? WWYD?

[CoffeeChocolateWine]

We were at a soft play cafe this afternoon and there was this boy - probably about 4 or 5 - who was a real trouble-maker.

My DS is 4 and yes I am biased but he's a lovely boy...makes friends wherever he goes, is very kind and compassionate, but also attracts attention from not very nice kids too. So this boy decided to start following my DS everywhere and would just go right up to his face and scream for no reason. My DS tried ignoring him and just played somewhere else, but he started following him again and screaming and then started pushing him. And you guessed it, his mum was nowhere to be seen.

I saw my DS about to push him back which I didn't like, so I called him over and just told him that that boy wasn't very nice, he shouldn't be hitting or pushing you, but I don't want to see you pushing back as it's not the way to resolve things. I told him, as I always do, to tell the boy "don't push me, I don't like it and leave me alone" and then to go and and play somewhere else. This used to work fairly well when he was younger, but today I watched as this little shit boy came up to DS, screamed in his face and then pushed him for no reason. My darling DS looked so shocked but just stood there and said "don't push me, leave me alone"...he didn't even finish saying it before the boy was screaming and pushing him again.

I felt awful and that I had given him the wrong advice and that what he actually should have done was given him a good shove back cos to be quite honest, he deserved it. I do believe tha pushing in defence is ok...I want my DS to grow up being able to stand up for himself, but I hadn't anticipated telling him that this is ok aged 4. I kind of thought he'd at least be in the second or third year at school!

The kid's mum was still nowhere to be seen so in the end I took my DS out of there and sat him down for lunch. But I've been thinking about it since. I just really think my DS should have pushed him back and taught him a lesson...I mean 1 shove, not encouraging my son to get into a fight. Is that wrong? AIBU? WWYD?

LynetteScavo. If your ds had turned the other cheek from the word go, he'd have been perfect victim material.

It's no coincidence that he hasn't had any trouble since he "let them know he wasn't there to be pushed around".

My DS is very good at standing up for himself verbally and this is the first time I've witnessed it having no effect whatsoever. I think I will tell him that this is always the best way to respond in these situations in the first instance.

But I do agree with some of you that SOMETIMES with certain kids if they carry on pushing, they do need a taste of their own medicine. Maybe a push out the way (rather than a push over) with a "don't push me" or "leave me alone" and then walking away is appropriate. I stand by my first statement that I don't really want to tell my DS this until he's 2 or 3 years older but I don't want other kids thinking they can pick on him. He's a big lad (product of a 6ft 4 dad and 5ft 10 mum) so it shouldn't take much for them to learn he's not to be messed with. I like to think anyway...

maybe tell him to put his arm up to block/stop any pushes instead of pushing?

To be honest, some times children need to learn that it is not ok for other children to attack/push/kick them, and that it is ok for them to push back.

I will not forget the moment when my nearly 3 year old ds2 had a boy, maybe 4/5 yo, pushing him in the playground. Ds2 has always been boisterous and very physically able despite his angelic looks and gentle manner. He went for the other boy roared into his face, held his hands straight out from his body, and marched the other boy backwards into a wall, and push him over so he was sat on the ground. The other boy looked terrified and stayed out of ds2s sight. Two other parents applauded my son.

just tell the kid off ffs. it takes a village to raise a child.

Floggingmolly, I haven't go the energy to go into the ins and outs of DS1s past behaviour on this thread. DS1 would have turned the cheek several times before giving the offending child a good seeing to shove. Luckily because it was high school, the offending child didn't go running to the teacher. Had it been junior school, DS1 would have been in big trouble.

One of the best learning experiences DS1 had at school was in Y6 when a boy in his class wouldn't let him have his ball back, and was being quite antagonizing. DS was getting annoyed, and the the boy said "Do you want a fight?" DS1 gave an affirmative response, to which the boy threw him on the floor. = DS1 with a smashed in face.

Cue me rolling my eyes and saying "Now do you understand why we always tell you to walk away?"

I remember saying to the member of staff who dealt with the incident (covered in blood, bless her) "I would rather he learned this now, than when he's in town at 18."

DS2 has always been able to talk himself out of violent situations (as has DH). I think it's a gift not many people (including myself) have.

MN always surprises me, but with this topic. The vast majority apparently teach their DC to hit back. Personally I think this is how wars start.

Appreciate all the responses. Loads of you are saying intervene/tell kid off etc and I do agree and I would have done had it not been for aforementioned baby meltdown and battle with shoes.

However, on the flipside, DS is off to school in September and there's bound to be playground scuffles and I want him to know how HE is handle the situation. I'm not always going to be there to step in and tell the other child off and by the sound of it teachers aren't always there either.

I never intervene straight away (unless there's hitting, punching, kicking etc which there never has been)...I do tend to stand back and watch and see how DS reacts and then give him advice on what he should do. But as I said, it struck me today that the advice I gave him was completely ineffective and he was screamed down and pushed around. So my question really is, what should I have told DS to do? Walking away didn't work that well...the kid followed him and did it again.

That question "what should I have told DS to do?" is aimed at the people who are against the pushing back option, given that the verbal defence and the walking away didn't work.

CoffeeChocolateWine what happened today is highly unlikely ever to happen in school - a member of staff will have dealt with it long before your DS has to push a child behaving like this. He sounds like a capable little chap, so I imagine he will handle things OK in school, and if he feels out of his depth at school he should TELL A GROWN UP. Who will deal with it for him.

You kind of took away all his options....you told him to tell the boy to leave him alone. He followed your advice and the boy followed him. He talked to you about the situation and you didn't help. You have taught him not to push back

What do you think is going to happen at school?

I agree with first line of defence being to tell the pest to GO AWAY, and getting some distance

THEN...tell a teacher. If the teacher doesn't 'fix it', I support my dd in defending herself physically. But that is quite controversial

BigAudio I don't understand what you mean by I took away all his options? And he talked to me about the situation and I didn't help?

A bit harsh. I did try to help but I admit the advice I gave didn't help in this situation...it's helped every other time I've given that advice. Yes, I didn't intervene on this occasion because I had my hands full with DD so instead I took him away from the situation. Is this not helping? You make it sound like I just left him to be screamed at and pushed about. I absolutely did not.

And so far I have taught him not to push back because he is 4 and I've taught him that using our words is better than using our hands. Appropriate, I would say, for his age. That doesn't mean I going to be telling him that into adulthood. As I said in my original post, I believe that pushing back in defence is ok, but maybe I'm naive but I thought I wouldn't be telling him this until he was about 6 or 7, not 4.

I didn't mean to be harsh....

Apologes

I always tell the dcs not to retaliate but to find me or another grown up. Mostly they are good and will come and tell me. We haven't ever really had any trouble at soft play though and I do keep an eye out as ds tears about and could potentially knock down a smaller child without meaning to. I would have said "don't push and shout please, it's not kind." Which is exactly what I would say to my children if they were doing the same to each other (obviously they would then get a time out if they persisted) and then if the boy didn't stop I would have spoken to staff or parents.

BigAudio, no worries. Perhaps I misinterpreted.