to think that working full time does not excuse you from parenting?

[MortifiedAdams]

Parent one works FT. Parent two is SAH. P1 has never bathed their dc, minded them on their own for even thirty mins let alone all evening or day, never took them.out of the house on their own, never took a day off work when P2 has had to go into hospital (P2s relative had to drive an hour out to mind the DC while P2 was in hospital).

P2 when unwell still runs around doing housework and making the tea for P1 and the DCs and still must do bath/bed and through the night wakings.

Justification for P1s attitude to parenting is that they work FT. They work really hard.

It makes me so so angry that P1s attitude is facilitated by P2 and excused by family. Of course as I am neither P1 or 2, it in theory is none.of.my business.

However I feel so so strongly about it that I dont want to be around P1 and am getting a bit sick of people saying how hard P1 has it working so hard.

It must be extremely frustrating to watch if they are close to you, and mostly importantly, not happy.

If they are happy enough, then it's their life. They will reap what they sow and that is their right.

If they're unhappy, then if I were I wold find it extremely hard not to say something.

You shouldn't say anything though, unless invited to and even then, you will not be thanked.

I can't even say honestly that P1 is wrong and P2 is right... they both sound stuck in a rather unhealthy rut.

Hate to be picky redlac but it was all in the op.

Mortified, if P2 is a friend or relative of yours I would feel I have to say something supportive. Just to let them know that you have noticed and you don't think the situation is right.

the OP says the working parent has NEVER:
bathed their child
minded them for even 30mins
taken them out of the house
EVER.

that is ONLY excusable if the parent has a disabililty that makes any of the above impossible or has been on an overseas or offshore posting for the child's ENTIRE life without any leave.

YANBU

However that full time worker will regret it when in years to come they hardly know their children.

"I feel it is our business"

It isn't unless the person the you perceive has the raw deal, asks you to get involved.

This was mine and my DH household arrangement when we had our first,it suited both of us. I liked to be the primary carer for our DD and my DH co-parented with me always around.

It changed on our second and third because we wanted it to, but it was never equal, partly due to my DH working away.

My DH became ill when our youngest was 18 months old and passed away.

I work full time and i still don't see running my house and caring for my children on my own, as difficult, tbh.

Birds are you quoting someone else? Ive never said that!

Also, I dont say I think things should be equal, but that working FT doesnt excuse you from doing no parenting. You call your DH a co-parent. Im assuming that means he did do some things.

He didn't ever have sole care of our DD when she was under 10.

He took baths with her and we did things as a family.

I EBF and he worked away, so i had my routine, which included friends with other DS's, who my DD played and stayed with.

It wasn't an issue for us.

Having said that paternity leave and parental leave didn't exist, holidays were two weeks and then a Christmas and Easter shut down, but then not everyone can afford to take theirs.

I remember hearing a conversation very similar to this at a playgroup. I was waiting for DD and a load of mums were talking and one said her husband left the house at 6am and got back at 9pm and then he played golf all Sunday, and one of the other mums said "so, you're a single parent effectively then?" and there was a sort of pause and the woman concerned said "oh, well I suppose I am, I never thought of it that way before."

I left shortly afterwards, but I do wonder what happened subsequently.

Ok I probably did get defensive when Yama said that it should be everyone's business that women get treated like shite and her children could be affected - I don't feel because I do 90% of the parenting that I am being treated like shit

No, but if you were doing 100% of it, and your DH was doing 0 even if he was avaliable for 10%, you might well, Red

I think people are right about the trap. Also from my own experience with a couple i know (who are now divorced) sometimes things can look very deceiving from the outside. While i'm not suggesting this is true for your friends OP, my friends discussed kids when together but never set anything in stone because they were loving their careers so much and their lifestyle, one problematic condom later and my God-daughter was conceived.

They decided to get married while she was pregnant (worst mistake ever) but at the time he still wasn't sure how he felt about becoming a dad- he was stressed and overworked and she lost her job before she was 6 months in so they took a drastic wage cut and he had to work harder to compensate. She meanwhile grew resentful she couldn't find a job, and he was never around.

As a result he pretty much resented my god-daughter, hence why they ultimately broke up. Because she was breastfed he felt he couldn't get involved there either, which lead to him feeling less bonded since he barely got any time with them as it was and had to work all hours, and her being annoyed that he rarely was home and wanting to spend time or getting up in the night.

He stopped want to be hands on at all after a while feeling that my god-daughter preferred mum anyway and just focused on providing- he became a work aholic to escape being at home and when at home he'd leave them to it.

Ironically now they are divorced, he's much more hands on and loves it thoroughly I think he felt he couldn't do it, didn't get time to and got all resentful. He and mum are now tentatively working towards something other then friend though which fills me with dread since she's of the mind 'another baby could bring the family together' not thinking that actually the stress and lifestyle change babies bring with them actually caused their first break up.

I can honestly say that when i ran the household and looked after my DD, i was not a single parent, having now ben one for 9 years.

You may think that having sole charge whilst living in a relationship is effectively being a LP, but it isn't.

I will admit that i thought it was when my DH was away from home.

Iggly I would like to think he will come round and realise how wonderful his DD is and want to care for her. He has four other DCs, one lives with them and he is very much the absent father in the other threes lives.

It is sad if he doesn't. I just remember an article about the regrets of the dying - one of the top ten was that they wished they'd seen their children more and worked less. I remind myself of that if I feel under pressure to work late for no reason other than everyone else is. I'd rather be home cuddling my children.

Leave them to it, it clearly works for them, their children are healthy and fed? They are luckier than some children. If both parents are ok with the situation then butt out.

there area few extreme cases where i could excuse this,but even then i would think that p1 would make the effort to do bathtime or something where possible.

its nothing to do with working and everything to do with p1 being an insensitive arse hole parenting should be shared as much as possible and not taking their children out or being alone with them is a cop out and lazy and selfish and making excuses for them is weak and feeble,

MY dh worked shifts and weird hours and was out of the house at bathtimes etc but when he was here he did 'stuff' with/for them not all working parents are 9 to 5 monday to friday but taking your turn and wanting to be with your children is really important imo,

I don't think it's just about the P1 and the P2; I think it's really tough on those children when P1 is ill and P2 is incompetent; it's going to make any illness or other mishap so much more stressful.

Also, very unfair if one of those dc is a girl, to see how her mum has to run around making tea for her clueless partner even when she is ill, not a good example at all.

Once you have children, it isn't just about how you choose to run your lives as adults.

My dh does a full work day and a 6 hour daily commute and still manages to find time for his children- because he cares that much about them!

My husband works ten hour days on a good week, twelve hour days on a bad week, and he always gets up with our toddler, reads with him, cooks him breakfast etc. Basically he spends ninety minutes one-on-one with him in the morning, and then takes him for a few hours either Saturday or Sunday. He has a poor relationship with his own father (workaholic) so wishes to break the cycle of uninvolved fatherhood. My father was very hands-on, and so this is my normal. I couldn't be with a man who just sat back and did nothing.

I'm a SAHP and DP works full time too. DP is fully acquainted with all the parenting duties OP mentioned. If I'm ill I don't even have to ask - he will automatically try and get some time off to help!

It sounds like in the scenario, P1 doesn't consider parenting as 'work' - in the sense that it requires P2's effort and energy, in order to achieve their jointly decided goal to raise a family.

I think our own situation was helped by the fact that when I used to be a WOHP, it involved regular evenings/nights away. During those times, DP had no choice but to muck in and do the cooking/bathing/bed routine at home, and get them up/ready for nursery the next morning. He got a big dose of hands on experience and appreciation - and also gained confidence in being comfortable with childcare. I was forced to let go of some of my control and respect the fact that although he didn't always do things my way, he can be trusted to look after them too.

Sometimes, I get the sense that when I mention what DP does, some people think I'm really lucky. But it's not purely luck - I wouldn't have had children with him if I thought he would just leave it all to me. Even so, we have had plenty of discussions about what each of us expects as parents/partners and sometimes I have had to spell it out.

Being a SAHP takes effort and work too.

He might work all day, but I am also busy with the dc! When DP gets home, we share bedtime routines, bathing, cooking, because I have just as much a right to a break as he does - I don't expect him to do more than his responsibility, hence we share.

It sounds like P1 and P2 have a different set of values and P2 agrees with their system, so up to them. But I wouldn't be happy in P2's situation myself!

I couldn't be happy in P2's situation either. I am SAHM, do the lion's share of childcare and housework but DH shares cooking and kitchen duties, and while he doesn't do an awful lot of child care by himself, he has had to take on more of it now we have DS2. He does whinge about it sometimes, which I find sad; he doesn't think to do anything himself, I have to tell him - the other day he was looking after DS1 and I was out and he forgot to give DS1 lunch - this is shit but down to DH "not thinking".

I already think that DH doesn't care enough about his DCs welfare (he does of course, just not in practical terms) - if he did as little as P1 in the OP I'd think he absolutely couldn't give a shiny shit about the child and I'd be out of there.