Why are ATOS doing this to people?

[TheLateMrPamuk]

DH broke his arm in July. He developed CRPS during the time the pot was on and as soon as the hospital removed it. He was taken in to see a consultant and they told him it was second or third stage.
He has always worked but his job involved heavy lifting so he was signed off. He sees the pain clinic every week, his occupational therapist for mirror box therapy weekly and is seeing a counsellor weekly to help him come to terms with the chronic and constant pain he's in.
He has begged them to amputate and his GP has backed this request up but there is no guarantee that it would stop it could make the pain worse.
So if that wasn't enough when work stopped paying him we had to claim ESA. He has never claimed any out of work benefits since leaving school we did get WTC. Three weeks of claiming and they called him for a medical.
The woman who did it was very nice but basically said that they will probably think well he's got another hand that he can use so should go to work. It was all tick boxes that she filled in. She was sympathetic but it gets sent off and all they see is he has one bad hand not that he can't stay awake because of the medication he's on or that he can't fasten his own jeans up or go to school and pick his children up. He can't even sit down without rocking or standing up as pacing is the only thing that he can do when he's in so much pain.
She did seem interested in his mental health as his doctor has wrote he's suicidal and anxious :(.
I'm so scared they will stop his ESA we are hardly surviving as it is. All our WTC has stopped all our savings have gone I can hardly afford to feed us as it is.
I'm more scared the affect it will have on DH though he already feels like he is scrounging and people are looking down on him and if they say you're fit for work and stop his money he is going to spiral more.
I can't even support us we have a toddler and 3 older dc and he can't look aftert them he can't cook, he falls asleep randomly, he can't clean up the toddler if she has an accident. I can't even work nights if there is an emergency and he's on all his painkillers wtf would happen.
But atos isn't interested I've read so many horror stories lately and I can't believe that they are leaving people to starve and die because they've ticked a box that says they can lift a hand above their heads or are ok answering a phone to a stranger.
His consultant and GP and psychologist have wrote letters supporting him yet someone who probably isn't even a doctor has our life in their hands right now. I've read stories where people have taken evidence in like blood test results and scan pictures and still are declared fit for work.
Why are they doing this to people who need the pat help? I've also read today that legal aid is stopping when it's a benefit issue so thousands of people are trying to defend themselves against these massive organizations.
It just doesn't seem very fair.

Thanks all. I have already rang up to arrange for someone to come out and do a risk assesment. A disability helpline told me to do this.
It is just all so alien to us both. This time last year he had a decent job and no idea about the system at all. Now we are up to our neck in it.

Morgan, I disagree strongly. Who better to state what someone's medical condition is and what impact it has on their life than the patient's actual doctor? Oh no, that might mean disabled people actually get the benefits to which they are entitled - far better to get a French IT company to employ any unqualified Tom Dick or Harry to tick a few boxes that do not convey the full picture of someone's health problems...

Edam = Who better to state what someone's medical condition is and what impact it has on their life than the patient's actual doctor?

Well, stating the medical condition and potential impact this may have is easy!

Deciding whether this means they can do a specific job or any type of job once it gets more complicated is more an occupational health assessment that requires more detailed knowledge of what the workplace involves etc. & there is a whole subspecialty of doctors trained in Occupational Medicine.

The tricky situations where I think it has a detrimental effect on the doctor-patient relationship is where the doctor can easily be aware of potential medical/psychological issues but NOT think that this means the patient can't work at all & that work may actually be good for them... but then there's a big conflict in agendas. Sometimes you can work with a patient on that - sometimes you can't & they'll just doctor-shop for someone who does take an easier route of less resistence & keeps signing the fit notes until the Fitness to Work formal assessment but has less interest in overall wellbeing.

So I think there is benefit to separating out the legal/statutory assessments when it comes to benefits from the from doctors who have a doctor-patient relationship with you. Although the people who do them would be welcome to ask for reports from all and sundry involved on a treatment basis.

occy health would be a bloody good idea, funny how the government hasn't bothered to set up an OH assessment for everyone who is disabled. Reports are all very well, but ATOS relies on unqualified people ticking boxes on a form and disregards or ignores reports from the patient's actual doctors.

And then you have the huge problem of discrimination by employers... even if there was full employment, it's still a barrier, at a time of more than 1m unemployed it's a massive issue.

Think you're missing the point, maybe, a little bit Morgan - with all due respect - doctors don't have to decide this stuff. What they should be able to do is write a letter or send a report stating factually the patients medical condition and the limitations it causes, and this ought to be enough material for the box ticking examiner to work with.

Sadly this sort of evidence isn't currently acceptable. If people go to appeal then yes, it often is taken at face value but in the first instance it will largely be disregarded - you're not supposed to take supporting documents with you to the exams as no one will look at them.

That's not about letting doctors decide who is fit for work. It's about taking a doctor's wordthat his patient isn't misrepresenting their own medical state. But Atos won't do that.

Get some outside help. CAB and DIAL are both good. Living with chronic pain takes a lot of adjustment, and right now they should respect that, if they don't it's a bloody crime!

Just so you know, you can ask for an assessment from social services adult care team, either for a disabled adult or as his carer. You may qualify for some support, in the form of Direct Payments, to pay for care and adjustments to make life easier.

You can also have OT come out and assess your house and provide aids for living for your husband.

He may need some help to come to terms with CP, try getting him to GP to check if he can be supported by the local CMHT and perhaps put on a course of CBT to help him learn to cope with the pain.

OP I sympathise so much with you. I I used to work for CAB and I've seen so many cases like your DH and yes lots of people get treated very unfairly by ATOS. However, I doubt that they would find your DH fit for work if your GP wrote that he's suicidal. His MH may actually make him qualify for the support group. Ask your local CAB for advice, the support group is for people who are very seriously ill and pays more.
Good luck!

And also get him to claim DLA

Rooneyisalwaysmoaning = Think you're missing the point, maybe, a little bit Morgan - with all due respect - doctors don't have to decide this stuff. What they should be able to do is write a letter or send a report stating factually the patients medical condition and the limitations it causes, and this ought to be enough material for the box ticking examiner to work with.

Doctors do the initial Fitness for work notes that ask for a binary 'Not Fit For Work' or 'May be Fit for Work' & then patients are generally referred 'to their GP' to get another by Job Centres/WCAs if they're appealing. The 'May be Fit for Work' option with adaptations/free texting suggestions is a brilliant option on the new forms but sadly individual Job Centres/Employers will try to bat it back with pressure to change it to a completely 'Not Fit' to avoid the onus being shifted back on them to work with people to see what they can do!

It's easy to state on the FFW form factually what the condition is. Re. limitations it causes - that's starting to venue a bit more into specific medical report/occupational health assessment because it wouldn't necessarily otherwise routinely be part of the consultation and medical treatment.

I just think it's less of a conflict if a doctor in the doctor-patient relationship with someone can focus on health of the patient rather than being in a position of making judgements about benefits that can make the relationship more difficult, especially in the longer term/complex scenarios or where conflict arises - this doesn't stop them from writing any reports requested on medical issues.

Also that an advantage to having another external body involved is the potential for greater consistency than individual GPs doing what they like - when some will be really pro trying to get people's health sorted to get them back participating in things if they're able & challenging requests that they see as inappropriate, whereas others may just go for the quick option of just keeping signing.

So although ATOS seem far from perfect I do see the general principle as a good idea & so as part of that in response to the thread title do see it as necessary but unfortunate that they will be challenging some seemingly worthy people initially.

This is the thing - you're talking about sick notes, while I'm talking about people who are on ESA already - and don't need to provide sick notes. They just get summoned to an interview every now and then, and have to present their own case - afaik doctors don't have to state whether or not they are fit for work in regard to this interview.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.