To see nothing with eating horse or a cute bunny... provided it has had a good life and was healthy at time of death

[ReallyTired]

Obviously if someone is vegeterian then its understandable they don't to eat any meat.

We want cheap food. Horse meat is far cheaper than beef. Rabbit meat is cheap as well.

Surely the important thing is to make sure that animals have a humane existance before slaughter. I feel its silly to get overly sentimental about eating horses or rabbits, but not care a damn about the welfare of cattle, sheep , chicken or pigs. The horses that got eaten probably had a better life than many battery chickens.

I think the issue with horsemeat lasanga is deception and labelling rather than the fact that some horse meat has got eaten. If the meat had been honestly labelled then it would have been a good source of protein for a cash strapped family.

I would rather eat properly tracked horsemeat than some really dubious cuts of beef. (Ie. remember mad cow disease.)

you forgot to mention bambi

I don't want cheap food, thank you.

I don't mind a bit of bambi either.

The real issue with this is we do not know whether it was horse meat meant for the food chain, so may well have been pumped with vetinary drugs not suitable.

You might want to research the lives and deaths of the Romanian horses you assume had a 'better life' than battery chickens. Also humans do not tend to eat battery hens - they are most often used for dog food after their 18 months hard labour in egg laying. Most hens eaten by humans are raised in broiler houses. The meat industry is a disgrace.

Another significant point in the current situation is that they don't know the source of the horsemeat. In the UK horse passports were introduced to supposedly stop horses going into the human food chain if they had been given certain drugs in their lifetimes. The system is a farce and doesn't work.
As the horsemeat in question comes from unknown sources there is now way of knowing whether it was fit for human consumption or not. There is a drug called Bute that is regularly used by horse-owners that can have harmful effects on people, just for example.
If you have a look at the horsey discussion groups you might be surprised to see horse owners being quite practical about the consumption of horsemeat. Provided that it is properly sourced and humanely treated in life. Unfortunately, in the case of many horses that end up being slaughtered, they are not humanely treated in life.
But that's another story. You can look on the World Horse Welfare website if you are feeling strong to learn more about that. Hillside Sanctuary have a powerful bit of video on their site taken of horses being slaughtered in an abbatoir.
Of course, the same considerations should apply to all animals that we eat.

The point isn't that it was horse.

The point is that companies clearly have no idea what is in their products. Or they do know and are deliberately mislabling.

"I would rather eat properly tracked horsemeat than some really dubious cuts of beef"

The problem is that it wasn't tracked and any that was means that the company blatently lied about their product.

It is law to label correctly, including calourie and nutritional content.

The question is why are they allowed to break the law because they are a large company?

Once again it is those on low incomes that suffer at the hands of big business.

mamma, why don't you research the amount of drugs stuffed in to the factory farmed meat animals, the milk and egg producing animals that you consider to be 'safe' to consume?

As well as the fact now that we know that some of the meat contained drugs unfit for human consumption.

I think the real issue is about trust. If a package says beef, you expect it to contain beef. My concern is not that it was not beef, but how do you know that the horse meat was fit for human consumption? If some one has fraudulently substituted the meat, surely it is likely that they would not be too bothered about whether this was with meat destined for pet food or destruction. How do you know it had been stored correctly?

birds why low incomes? I get rather sick of hearing/seeing this - it is nonsense. It is not just poor people who eat crappy processed food and it is not expensive to cook and eat well - my Mum brought us up that way and we were not rich.

"birds why low incomes"

Less educated around food, or disadvantaged, then.

I've had this arguement many times on various threads, as someone who works with "families in need", i know it isn't as simple as it sounds.

Either way, people should go to prison for this,it is worse than many individuals fraud cases that command prison sentences.

Many laws have been broken to allow this to happen.

Fines, which won't even eat into profits, shouldn't be the punishment.

I might not choose to eat horse as many of my friends and neighbours ride and it would feel like eating someone's pet.

I certainly wouldn't choose to eat rabbit, my tail wouldn't approve.

I have some bambi in the freezer and DD2 eats meat, but think eating fish is unspeakably cruel.

There is no rhyme or reason to what meat different people, religions and cultures eat, but it jolly well ought to be labeled correctly.

I have friend who have just come back from Vietnam, there is a big chang efrom five years ago, all by the buying and using of land by big food/farming companies (Coffee and cattle feed are two), they are destroying our planet and it it those at the bottom of the ladder who suffer the most.

But we need to address what is happening, whilst we still have a planet worth saving.

I don't have a problem with eating rabbit or horse - as long as I know that's what I'm eating.

What MechanicalTheatre said. The fact it was horse wasn't the point for me (although I am a bit grossed out), its the idea that retailers, wholesalers, regulators, can't be trusted to give you any confidence in what you are buying. If you can eat a lasagne which is substantially horse, merrily thinking its prime cow, how can you be sure that lasagne doesn't also have botulism or colostrum difficule or another highly toxic bacteria?

Rabbit isn't cheap. Not if you buy it labelled as rabbit. It's hideously expensive because it's marketed as lean and healthy.

Having kept rabbits as pets I guess that most rabbits bred for meat are kept in appalling conditions because they put up with it without losing weight. Much like pigs.

The mark up must be astronomical as is the mark up on selling horsemeat fraudulently disguised as beef

Pretty much every on-line conversation I've seen has been people saying it's not so much the eating of a horse but the fact it was unknown. The only time I've seen the cutesy aspect mentioned is when someone posts it as a completely unrelated 'it's just another kind of meat -hypocrite".

There are lots of people -such as myself- who would probably never pick a my little pony burger off a menu, but I'm not hysterically drinking bleach at the thought of consuming horse.

What I'm not happy with is the fact no-one seems to know how, where or why this meat has ended up in the food chain without anyone realising at any stage....

Fwiw I'm surprised there wasn't more outrage at fish being sold as particular species when it was in fact a cheaper substitute, I'm fairly sure this is still going on.

It's down to knowing what you're buying. Also there is no point in being overtly smug at buying the basics and making your own stuff, it's highly unlikely that everything in your kitchen has escaped processing of some sort that you have no control over. Never mind getting into the legal minimums of insects, pus and fecal matter that are allowed in pretty much all foods.

Why should people on low incomes consider horse meat or rabbit. You can get high quality cuts of horse meat or rabbit for a fraction of the price of beef. You can eat better for less. If you swapped horse meat for beef then you can have a healthier meal for a lot less.

If tescos sold horsemeat steaks or rabbit which were labelled correctly, why would this be a bad thing?

"But that's another story. You can look on the World Horse Welfare website if you are feeling strong to learn more about that. Hillside Sanctuary have a powerful bit of video on their site taken of horses being slaughtered in an abbatoir.
Of course, the same considerations should apply to all animals that we eat. "

I don't think that any animal has exactly a nice time in an abbatoir. The demand for cheap meat often means that welfare standards are compromised.

I think that people are kidding themselves if they genuinely think that Findus, Aldi et al did not know about this. They knew well enough what was going on but now have to act dumb as they have been caught.

YABU if you really think horses that end up as meat have a better life than battery hens. The cruelty and suffering they endure once rounded up and sold for meat is truely horrific and in my opinion this is something the media are really missing the point on in this whole scandal.

YANBU to think eating horse meat, rabbit, bambi, whatever is ok as long as it is produced humanely. Sadly in countries where horse meat comes from, their standards are extremely poor. It's about time we stopped allowing meat in from other countries full stop. What's the point in the UK having its own standards and then our major supermarkets are selling meat products that the vast majority of people wouldn't touch if they were informed about how it's produced.

Excellent point Quilty. The problem is the cheapness and as a nation we have come to believe that meat is an absolute staple and that it should be dirt cheap. It is consumer demand that has fuelled this and we must take our share of the blame.

YANBU, as long as the animals are healthy and lived a reasonable life.

I lived really, really North in Sweden, near a reindeer farm. Reindeer was cheap, but nice. I would prefer reindeer over beef, but you can't, for obvious reasons, get it here.

If horse, deer, rabbit whatever was available, the animals were treated well, the food was checked to a high standard, then yes, I would buy it, but unfortunately that probably won't happen.

As long as the animals were treated humanely, and the country where the meat comes from (better if our own, for the enviroment and also because we can set the standards for checking and animal welfare) has a high standard, then I think it's fine. Unfortunately, most countries the meat will come from won't, so until we can get as much meat as possible coming from the UK, and raise the animal welfare standards, then it probably isn't going to happen.

reallytired where do you buy these high quality cuts of horsemeat or rabbit?

Welfare aside, I've never seen horsemeat on sale and rabbit in my independent butchers or Sainsbury's is shocking for the price they've presumably paid for it. But I do understand they have their overheads.

I probably wouldn't buy horsemeat because I suspect, like venison or boar, I'd find it too dry for my cooking standards. I might order it in a restaurant but I'd expect to pay.