to have thrown water over DS (10) as he would not get dressed this morning?

[StuckForAUserName]

We are late almost every day due to DSs having no interest in getting ready for school and it is an ongoing problem where I am severely stressed out every morning.

It got to 8.25 this morning (we need to leave by 8.30) and DS1 was still in underpants jumping on his brother and fighting him. He had been repeatedly told to get dressed and I warned him I would do it.

I picked up a small jug of cold water I had been using for the iron and chucked it at him. He was soaked and had to change pants. He had some splashes of water on his clean and laid out ready school uniform but I told him to put it on.

I now feel very guilty and hate that I did it but the only other option was a hard slap on the arse IMO. So am I a child abuser?

[MrsKeithRichards]

Or we could all continue to laugh about abuse, pretend it only happens or matters when children are beaten black and blue on a daily basis. Everything else is just discipline and perfectly acceptable right? We can carry on minimising it, laughingly asking if we're abusers ourself, putting the phrase in brackets.

Or we could start taking it seriously and giving a fuck.

[goingupinfumes]

mrsjay another mad inflatable killer!! yeh.. I burst my DS football the other day, he had been asked again and again not to kick it indoors and he just pushed it that one last kick and smashed my vase - introducing one mad woman and a burst football.

Anyhow OP I think it sounds like a pretty normal reaction to have, it will be interesting to see how he gets ready tomorrow, if it was a lesson learnt, or just something funny you will talk about when he is older? and people saying its abuse need to get into the real world at some point, I often chuck water over my DH when he won't get out of bed.. which makes for a giggle in our house, not abuse! So wouldn't think twice about the 2 DS getting the same treatment.

[Fairenuff]

One abusive act does not automatically make a person an abuser. They made a mistake, they went too far, they lost their temper. However, it's important to recognise that the situation got out of control and harm occurred. The fact that a grown adult cannot contain their temper will always raise warning flags.

Minimising it, brushing it off as unimportant is how regular abuse gets overlooked.

Instances like this need to be recognised for what they are. As 'stand alone' situations. And they should be recorded as such.

If they occur more frequently, then either the child, or parent, or both of them need help.

Anyone who isn't sure could ask themselves this. Would I be happy for another adult to treat my child this way? To 'give them a bollocking' for putting mayonaise in their slippers? Yes, that would be ok. To drag them out of bed and into a shower, causing a carpet burn? No that would not be ok.

Another way to check is to ask would I be happy for my DH to treat me like this? A man who dragged his wife out of bed, into the shower, causing a carpet burn, could be prosecuted. So, yes, it's abuse, no matter what the provocation.

[Fairenuff]

shutthebloodydoor would you be happy for someone to treat your child the way we are discussing? Dragged out of bed, into the shower, causing a carpet burn. This is a genuine question.

Would it be ok if you did it to your child, or your partner did, or a relative did, or the babysitter, or someone else?

At what point would you consider that behaviour not ok and speak out on behalf of your child?

[KateSMumsnet]

Morning everyone,

We can see that tempers are running high on this thread.

We'd like to remind you all of our talk guidelines, and that sometimes the best thing to do is just step away from the thread for five minutes.

[shutthebloodydoor]

I can actually see it for what it was and thats my opinon, like you have yours.It wasnt a relative, babysitter it was her dad. There is a million what ifs.

Mrs KeithRichards not every one is getting abused (sorry just read an earlier post) I think if you went sounding the alarms every single time you would have millions of kids in care. And you would be like the old woman in the shoe! Calm down

If it was happening every day or Allwaysthebaddie was upset with it it would be an issue. It sounds like a one of spur of the moment things. When my dad slapped my legs my mum said I was that shocked nothing came out of my mouth! Just stood there mouth a gape! Untill i took a big breath and screamed the house down. My dad lost his emotions-fear-relief-anger as I had gone in to the road. He wasnt an abuser.

fairenough when my baby comes and if she is 5 - no 7-no 9- no but if she was in secondry school winding me up every morning then I would do it my self! But of course she will be an angel and I wont have too!

[MrsKeithRichards]

shutthebloodydoor Dont' be sorry. That's actually incredibly patronising but I'm sure you know that. My father is a great man whom I love and adore. He made some shitty parenting decisions. I don't hate him for that. He stopped when I had the knowledge to say 'actually no, this isn't right'.

I'm not tarring anyone with the same brush, it is hard for me to acknowledge that actually yes, his behaviour wasn't right, because he is my dad, loves me to bits, does loads for me. He just handled some things wrong.

He would lash out when he felt wound up, would chase me through the house and hit my legs, hard. I was 15 the last time he done it when I wrote him a letter detailing how it made me feel.

Was I abused or just disciplined? Every other aspect of my childhood was pretty idyllic. Is it relative? He actually done nothing as bad as dragging me about and throwing me in the shower. He just didn't know where to stop when he started. He never used anything to hit me, in fact it would fall into the relams of normal for some people on here.

But it's left me with some fucked up perceptions. I was in a relationship where my partner would do the same. I thought it was me that made men lash out, I must be annoying and provocative. Again this partner didn't beat me black and blue, I wasn't cowering in the corner, afraid of him. I wasn't like that with my dad either. But my experiences made it seem normal again to get hit.

I'm not in the job I am because of what happened to me. My experience pales into insignificance compared to what goes on in some households. It's incredibly damaging though, to project your 'normal' on someone else.

[MrsKeithRichards]

shutthebloodydoor Mrs KeithRichards not every one is getting abused (sorry just read an earlier post) I think if you went sounding the alarms every single time you would have millions of kids in care. And you would be like the old woman in the shoe! Calm down

Do you know anything about procudure concerning child protection?

Clearly not.

Voicing concerns with the relevant people does not result in millions of kids in care.

[crazymazydazy]

Throwing anything at your child is abuse. Sorry but I don't understand how anyone could not think that

[ElsieMc]

I let DS's 9 and 7 have TV on and eat breakfast in front of it so long as they are all dressed and ready by 8.30 am reading to leave at 8.40 am. If this does not happen, no TV and eat breakfast in dining room. This generally works.

When going through a bad patch, I told them I would ring their (eccentric) headteacher and get her to come round, which she probably would have done. That sent them running and demonstrated that she must be obeyed. She waits outside the school as well until the pupils are all in.

[OxfordBags]

The biggest irony on here is that the 'Never did me any harm' brigade who sneer at concepts like modelling good behaviour and so on are totally proving the posters who disagree with them RIGHT by showing how having bad behaviour and poor/chaotic discipline choices modelled for them has led them to be adults who cannot control their temper, or think that the slightest provocation gives them permission to lose it, who will react with excessive nastiness and OTT vitriol to the slightest thing that irks them, who give themselves permission to be vindictive and hysterical and who justify all this to themselves by saying the other party or parties made them behave that way!

Saying that a single incident from Allways' childhood sounds abusive simply is NOT the same as calling her father an abuser. If people cannot understand the difference, then that's their problem. The only person who has actually been called an abuser on here is me! In her post which was deleted for being so vile to me, she stated. That me BFing my toddler was "abuse and creepy". Information she has from another thread that is wholly irrelevant here (she also pestered me on the other, unconnected thread about things I have said here and declared on there that I called her father an abuser, again slandering me).

MrsKeithRichards, you always speak sense with a cool head and are very open and honest about your own experiences. It makes me glad someone like you is looking out for the welfare of children :)

[NotMostPeople]

I think that the OP herself didn't think that her reaction was right, but she lost her temper. Most parents have lost their temper with their dc's at some point, so I don't think she should beat herself up.

However I really don't understand how a parent can get to a point were their children won't listen to them to the extent that they just ignor them and do their own thing. What this thread is about is a lack of control, control of the op's children and control of temper.

I am not talking about being controlling in the negative way but in the way that a caring nurturing parent should be. The kind of control that ensures you leave the hous on time, clean, full, dressed and with all you need.

My DC's may not do everything I ask them, the pile of stuff at the bottom of the stairs is walked over many times a day. However when I give them the look or change the tone of my voice they know I mean business and what I say goes. How do you get to the point were this doesn't happen? I have a 10 year old DS and an 11 year dd and a teen.

The OP needs to take control.

[crashdoll]

"Saying that a single incident from Allways' childhood sounds abusive simply is NOT the same as calling her father an abuser. If people cannot understand the difference, then that's their problem."

If you experience abuse, then there must be a perpertrator. Otherwise, there is no abuse.

My other point I came on here to make that was those of you labelling throwing water as abusive are clearly not social workers. You'd get laughed out of court with that evidence alone, that is if you even got that far, which I doubt.

[MrsKeithRichards]

My other point I came on here to make that was those of you labelling throwing water as abusive are clearly not social workers. You'd get laughed out of court with that evidence alone, that is if you even got that far, which I doubt.

On that single incident, you're right. No one has said otherwise. Not all abuse is court worthy though is it? Not all abusive acts form part of a wider picture. I'm sure it's been said before, but I'll say it again, abuse isn't defined in isoation. A single act can be abusive, the extent of that lies in what happens at other times.

As part of a wider range of issues?

And exactly what is it teaching a child? Stamp, shout and throw things when you need someone to do something for you?

[MrsKeithRichards]

However, considering the OP's other option was hard slap on the arse then I'd suggest she needs some help with positive techniques or she is in danger of creating an atmoshpere of abusive behaviour.

[OxfordBags]

crashdoll, no-one actually said that the water throwing was abuse, they just questioned it being an acceptable choice. Again, different things. The OP asked on AIBU if she WBU. Some people said they believed she was. It's a non-outrage: MNetter asks on AIBU if AIBU, some say no, some say yes! It's not like people are crashing a thread in Parenting to decry the poster as a child abuser, FFS.

Also, labelling someone's father an abuser indicates a belief that he was routinely bad, which no-one thinks.

[OxfordBags]

I'd also like to point out that if allwaysthebaddie tried to report someone to SS for BFing, which she declared was abuse, it'd be far more ridiculous.

[NTitled]

Again, OxfordBags speaks a lot of sense.

Parenting options for difficult, annoying, recalcitrant children:

Tip water on them

Smack them

Think of something better.

I am tested by one of my children every minute of the day when he's at home. But I have never resorted to either of the first two "options". Is it really so weird to think it's unreasonable to tip water over a child?

[crashdoll]

Sorry but there were some posts on here calling it abuse.

[valiumredhead]

There's a massive difference between a loving father dragging his dd out of bed, her probably laughing and playing along by being deliberately floppy, happening to get a carpet burn in the process and soaking her in the shower, then laughing about it years later and an abusive man dragging his child out of bed, deliberately being rough so she gets a carpet burn, pushing her into the shower all the while hurling verbal abuse at her. Child feels unsafe and terrified and unloved as this is not normal rough and tumble behaviour in a secure loving family and is part of a much bigger picture of abuse.

The two are very very different.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Allways - procrastinating is delaying or deferring action, wasting ti e, rather than getting on with something. I was not procrastinating - I was asking you to look at the incident that happened to you from a different angle, because that might give you a different perspective on it.

You mentioned that the staff you work with were not at all concerned about what happened to you. What would their reaction be if a child reported that something similar had happened to them? Would they still laugh it off? If they would, that is a worry because, as others have said, a single incident of a parent losing their temper might not be abuse, but if it were part of a pattern, there could be a child in an abusive situation - and unless the, apparently minor, individual incidents are recorded and reported, no-one will be able to build up the pattern that would ring the alarm bells, until too late.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

• • time, not ti e.

[KellyElly]

Valium - when Allways posted she described MY mum and 2 younger brothers watched in stunned silence and her dad was just sick and tired of me taking piss out of my mum.. Where do you get the her probably laughing and playing along by being deliberately floppy??? That's just making things up to suit your own argument!

[OxfordBags]

Kelly, Valium is positing two different ways of how the incident might have played out, she's not making things up to suit herself.