Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Yabu,

Its a fairly simple explanation,

There children have xyz because there parents pay for it, you are not able to pay for it so your children do. Go private.


And there are things you can do to get kids with SN a good education and support children with there education that cost nothing.

In my experance the parents who long term bitch and wail about there children not getting good help are in that position because they dont do the legwork in or they expect the LA to do everything with little or no input from them so let the LA get away with not doing what they should obviously that does not include cases where the parents are or have taken steps to challenge the LA ( but again in my experance ones who do that,tend not to bitch they tend to be a bit more rational and practical in how they try to approach it)

[Mosman]

Since I was 18 years old every decision I made was made with the fact that my children's education would be private and the absolute best I could afford.
Everything from where we live to what car I bought as a 20 year old, to what job I took, all based on what I wanted for my DC should they ever arrive.

However 7 years into private education I can honestly say having a involved set of parents is THE key. The school really plays a pretty small part.

[elizaregina]

Op are you educated at all, can you not help your dc yourself?

[maddening]

Could any of your dc apply for a scholarship or bursery?

[grotbagz]

I was given the choice between the two but chose to go to the state school and still got into one of the best universities in the country as did many of those I knew, and a lot of the people there were also from state schools so don't see this as relevant as long as your child is prepared to earn merit regardless of background.

Top universities very often have 'access to' places available where people locally from state schools get given a lower entry grade to achieve to get a place also, so there are a lot of options available, bursaries etc. Some top universities bend over backwards to encourage people from less advantaged backgrounds that they think have potential to get them through their doors, specifically unis like Leeds and Sheffield where many people I know from private schools with the same predicted grades didn't get a conditional place while others from state schools did.

While I sympathise with you in terms of discrepancies between state schools (I went to two VERY different ones) that is no fault of the private schools. You can't begrudge those who are able to send their children to private schools when I'm sure given the opportunity most parents would do this if they thought it would help their children. If I was paying for a type of service that I could get for free I would expect that service I was paying for to be of a better standard or there would be no reason to pay for it.

[Faxthatpam]

I am fed up with hearing that tired old line about "hard work" getting you what you want... tell that to a nurse and a fireman working shifts - they work harder than most, doing jobs that are more important than most, and would never be able to afford private school fees. They have just as much right to a good education for their children as a lawyer or city trader. A good education can be had in the state sector - and ime a far broader and frankly better one in a good state school than in a 'spoon fed' private one. The problem is that not all state schools are good ones and sometimes there is NO choice. YANBU,it is unfair, and the postcode lottery affecting state education is hugely unfair. Life is sometimes a bit crap and it is good to have a rant!

To those who suggest 'forcing themselves' to go to church every week to get into a faith school - I think that is morally wrong. If I had a faith and had attended church all my life I would be horrified by that idea, and very angry with parents who got away with it.
Having said that, I do not think state faith schools should exist - how is it right that I pay towards a school from which my children are excluded? Why should my children's choice of school be narrower than that of the Catholic or CofE child next door? That is unjustifiable IMO. Children of all faiths should be educated together and learn about each others faiths and belief systems. Religious apartheid is a bad idea and will only promote intolerance. IMHO.
Rant over. .

[Renniehorta]

If education was valued by all sections of society issues like class sizes would be much less of an issue. In many successful countries class sizes are much bigger. However it is not an issue as the students there go to school determined to learn.

It can never be a level playing field whilst so many schools are infused with antagonistic/ can't be bothered attitudes from many of their students. This is in great part what people pay to escape from.

[Narked]

Why don't you quit whining and do something about it.

[grotbagz]

'Better standard' is perhaps the wrong wording on my last post

[MorrisZapp]

Personally I think you probably are BU but I can see where you're coming from.

To me, it's a MN fallacy that kids feel bad/smug depending on what schools they go to. I was state educated and never even gave it a milisecond of thought. I knew that private schools existed, and that they cost money to go to. But it never once entered my mind that i was getting something less than the private school kids.

Once your kids have got their friend group at school, they'd refuse to move anyway. I couldn't have given a toss about statistics, future life success etc and unless the average teenager has changed dramatically since my day, I shouldn't think many other people's kids analyse it either.

It's about parental aspirations, not kids being all gutted because they're not getting 'the best'. Kids don't know or care.

[SunflowersSmile]

I sympathise Yermina as we are church mice of our family.
1st cousins children at private school and my brother's at middle class state and private tutors used by majority of parents.
My children at a state primary that many so called MC avoid.
HOWEVER- I don't feel my children are deprived. Their school is a kind school that is excellent for children with special needs. No parent I know at the school uses private tutors and thus I sense teachers work harder to enthuse children.
My SIL complains that teachers at her children's school coast on the tails of home tutored children.
I am involved in the school and invested in it timewise and have become proud of it.
Maybe try and get more involved in the school- parent governor?
Good luck.

[Saski]

Faxthatpam, you're quite right that someone working shifts can't possibly afford private school. But, they could possibly afford to homeschool their kids. It gets a bad rap because the people who homeschool do tend to be nutjobs - but if done well, and for the right reasons, these kids will rival privately educated ones.

[PessaryPam]

Go and live in Cuba OP. You can have all the education you want. But you can only work for the government at a flat rate independent of skill.

[TheOriginalLadyFT]

I would very much agree with what mosman said - while private schools do offer important benefits such as smaller class sizes and a broader curriculum, still a lot of it comes down to having involved parents

I also scrimped and saved (and made life/career choices) so that I could afford to send my child(ren) to private school. I am very glad that I did (not least because Labour saw fit to get rid of assisted places, which helped many children from non wealthy backgrounds attend private schools) as my DS has severe dyscalculia and mild dyslexia and it was immediately obvious from the two years he initially spent in state education (at a good state primary) that he would suffer greatly in an environment where one teacher struggled to give attention to 30+ pupils.

Every penny of disposal income I make goes into funding his private schooling, and that means obvious "sacrifices" elsewhere - things that other families might consider a greater priority (second car, multiple foreign holidays etc). But even though he goes to a very good school, which offers learning support in lessons and also individual LS three times a week, he would still be severely struggling without me sitting down every night with him to help him make sense of what he is taught and deal with his homework.

YANBU to wish you afford to send your children, but there are things you can do which will help them achieve even outside the private education system. There are fantastic learning resources online and in print which, with your input, will give your children a helping hand

[Whyamihere]

I send dd to private school, she is delibrately an only, we had her late and built up our careers before we had her, everything we did was because we wanted to privately educate (both dh and myself had a lack lustre education in state schools).

If all schools were equal and I knew that she would get the same opportunity as a child in a school down the road then I would send her to state school, but as it is I would have to send her to a failing school, and I feared she would get overlooked - as I did at school. In the area I live the GCSE results for state schools range from 35% getting 5 A* - C's to 75%, how can this be fair?

Education should be equal for everyone, but it's not, not even in state schools, until the equality in state schools is sorted out it's a bit unfair to say that privately educated are the only ones with the advantage.

[seeker]

This isn't about individuals- it's about the system being inherently unfair. The OP could sell an kidney and send her children to private school- that wouldn't make the system any fairer.

One of the most unpleasant characteristics of mumsnet is the assumption that if you feel strongly about something it must be because it affects you personally. Hence the shrieks of "jealousy" and "envy" that always abound on topics like this.There are people who look at the broader picture and have a strong sense of social justice.

[elizaregina]

"t's about parental aspirations, not kids being all gutted because they're not getting 'the best'. Kids don't know or care. "

True but if ops poor children are aware of her feeling they are missing out and disadvantaged they may well care.

[juneau]

However 7 years into private education I can honestly say having a involved set of parents is THE key. The school really plays a pretty small part.

Yes, I agree with this totally. I went to private school and did only okay, because my mother never pushed me and my dad, who would've done so, was no longer living with us. My DH, OTOH, went to a state school and had a father who pushed him constantly and took the time to give him extra coaching at home, rewarded him for good grades, took away privileges for bad ones, constantly encouraged and expected excellence. Guess who's done much better in life? My DH. The one without the fancy education.

[NotADragonOfSoup]

I do not think state faith schools should exist - how is it right that I pay towards a school from which my children are excluded? Why should my children's choice of school be narrower than that of the Catholic or CofE child next door? That is unjustifiable IMO. Children of all faiths should be educated together and learn about each others faiths and belief systems. Religious apartheid is a bad idea and will only promote intolerance. IMHO.

This! State funded schools should be open to all.

[juneau]

seeker the OP stated that she was jealous and bitter. Read the OP again if you don't believe me.

[Sausageandmash]

OP - I see your point but wonder, if a long-lost relative died leaving you lots of cash in a will, what would you do with that money?

Would you say 'thanks but no thanks', it's money I didn't earn through my own efforts, so it would give me/my family an unfair advantage over others etc?

Or would you accept it, choosing to use it to buy extra music classes/get extra one-to-one tuition etc, to help your DC. In this case, would you not be guilty of giving them a leg up, of providing privilege?

I just wonder what we'd all do in that situation and whether, hand on heart, we could turn down a chance to help our children even though it brings advantage which is not through your own effort (easier for those whose children are happy at school/doing well but trickier for those who are not so happy).

[PessaryPam]

seeker the OP wrote
Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

The OP is eaten up with jealousy.

[chocoluvva]

OP - I think I have the solution for you.

It will need a bit of financial re-organisation, but it might work. Swap your usual food shop for the cheapest possible food - value sausage rolls, burgers,tinned hot-dogs, scotch pies, pot-noodles etc. Get your middle child a bursary for somewhere good and us what you save on good quality food to pay the remainder of the fees.

[chocoluvva]

'us' - should be 'use'. Sorry.

[PessaryPam]

choco is this how you did it? I sense this from your post