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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

not aibu but who owns a grave plot?

25 replies

aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 22:42

Can anyone clarify ownership of a grave?
I've been told that the next of kin of the last person laid to rest there owns the grave, and ownership passes with each internment.
I've also been told that this is bollocks, and ownership is handed down in the will of the person who originally bought the plot.
Actually, I've been told a whole load of conflicting shit, and my old friend google ain't helping none!
Can anyone throw light on this for me please? :)

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WorraLiberty · 03/02/2013 22:44

If you're talking about a particular grave and it's not just a general question, the best thing to do would be to phone the graveyard tomorrow.

My Dad has his own plot but I have no idea about the answer to your question.

Birdsgottafly · 03/02/2013 22:46

You need to contact the City council that the grave comes under.

The ownership doesn't change, it my L.A.

I had to get my SIL's permission to have my DH's ashes buried with his mother.

She has promised to have the ownership transfered in her will.

My Auntie owned her DH's grave and we blocked my DGM shes going in, because it is her who decides on any marking/decoration.

Birdsgottafly · 03/02/2013 22:48

It definately isn't the last person laid to rest as there is paperwork and "deeds" issued.

ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay · 03/02/2013 22:48

The grave plot will have been purchased by someone initially, the cemetery should have records of who this was. Then it is a case of tracing ownership through either a will if one existed or the standard legal intestacy line. It may now be co-owned. Y a lot of people.

Talk to someone in the council the cemetery belongs to. There will be a department.

I own a grave plot but in order to own it my mum, aunts and uncles all had to sign it over to me. They had inherited it automatically on the death of my grandparents who originally bought it. I needed to own it so my dad's ashes could be scattered.

Since graves have a certain number of bodies allowed to be interred you would need to be clear with any relatives what they may be giving up access to or control over.

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 22:50

Thanks, I will be contacting our council tomorrow but I am very impatient hoped for a bit of clarification to help me sleep tonight! :-)

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WorraLiberty · 03/02/2013 22:56

Well the night is fairly young unlike myself so you never know Grin

Hassled · 03/02/2013 23:01

I think there are different types of grave ownership - I know my grandfather bought one in the 1930s (for the baby who would have been my aunt) which is of a type that means the cemetery can't ever dig it up/reallocate the space, and that it's there forever - or so the nice cemetery man told me. I have the original deeds. So while I don't think it could be dug up to add my body, it does now have the ashes/names of both grandparents and my mother.

mrsbunnylove · 03/02/2013 23:07

no idea. my grandparents had provision. i think there's room for my mum...but she'll probably be cremated and her ashes put on a post in the hills to blow away, like my dad wants to happen with his.

wongadotmom · 03/02/2013 23:10

Who told you that the NOK of the last person to be laid to rest is the owner of the grave, OP? And why do you need to know tonight?

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 23:18

The funeral directors told me that NOK of the last person buried in a plot had ownership transferred to them.
Acting on this information, we ordered a beautiful stone and plinth for the grave, with the names of all the family members put on. However, some family members have kicked off (because that's what they do) and said they own the grave, and ownership DOESN'T pass as they asked someone at the council parks and cemeteries dept. Other relatives are really pleased with the memorial, there is just one small faction who like to create/spread misery :(
I just wondered if anyone could clarify tonight as it's going round my head.

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whatsforyou · 03/02/2013 23:30

I'm not sure but think it is treated like any other piece of land.
It can be left as part of a legacy if that is what you want. We had a horrible time but eventually got their in the end x

whatsforyou · 03/02/2013 23:31

there

whatsforyou · 03/02/2013 23:35

there

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 23:36

The only thing I've got from Google s that the council still has ownership of the land a plot is on.
It's just not clear.
Damn those fuckers for putting these shit doubts in my head. I should be on hour two of sleep!

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TraceyTrickster · 03/02/2013 23:36

My mother died last year and we wanted her ashes added to that of her family.
Council advised us that they (council) owned the plot and we could buy it for £500, but it had to belong to one person. My brother now owns it and can give permission for whoever he likes to be added.
I organised the memorial but my bro had to sign does agreeing to it.
Beautifully complex!

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 23:37

Are you placating me, whatsforyou? :)

There, there! :)

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floweryblue · 03/02/2013 23:40

No idea about your situation but I do remember my Nana bought a big enough plot when my Grandad died, so she could be put next to him. She is still alive and no-one else has died or wanted the plot, so the issue has not come up in our family.

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 03/02/2013 23:44

Thanks, Tracey.
Back story is that we told the family we were making changes to the grave. (DM NOK of deceased).
They agreed in principle, and an aunt who was joint executor of the deceased with my DM signed a form agreeing to changes being made to the grave and the cost being deducted from the estate.
All well and good. They left us to get on with it. They weren't interested, as had no time for the deceased and wanted fuck all to do with funeral arrangements or the details of the work we were commissioning
Now it's all ordered and work has begun, they say they own the grave and we had no right to remove the old stone for the improvements.
If DM doesn't own the grave as she's been told, a whole load of shit is gonna kick off, despite the written consent from joint executor, because DM's family are a bunch of horrible, hateful cunts. And I use that word advisedly

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Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 04/02/2013 09:40

Well I'm still no clearer, can't get through to parks and cemeteries, there's been noanswer all morning so far

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ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay · 04/02/2013 12:03

In my experience the cemetery wouldn't have agreed or allowed the ashes to be scattered on the grave / body interred without permission from the grave owner. So if that has happened then your DM and the co executor have the rights to it and the rest can sod off.

TiaMariaandSpringCleaning · 04/02/2013 12:44

I think you'll have to kep trying parks and cemetries as it probably does differ from area to area. FWIW, I 'own' two plots (long story, they are for other family members who bought them and then transferred ownership to me) and in both cases ownership was transferred by way of them filling out a form and paying a small fee, then a certificate of ownership was sent to me. On both it says that I can transfer ownership by way of the same form or leave ownership to someone in my will.

Dahlialover · 04/02/2013 12:48

Like Thinkaboutit, I don't think your mother and the other executor would have got this far with the cemetery if it was not ok.

The other family members seem a bit late with their objections.

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 04/02/2013 18:25

Thanks, just to update, the warring faction have been to the other executor and told her to revoke her agreement, and have been to the stone mason and told them to halt what they are doing and put the grave back as it was. Stone mason told them it will look awful, it wasn't in the best shape as it was. The print out of the plans were shown to them (its stunning) and they have been left to come to some sort of agreement, which seems to be either a) go ahead, it's beautiful or b) stop everything, put the old grave back in bits just so we can be a set of CUNTS because WE didn't choose it.
AFAIcan see, we entered into a contract with stone mason when we ordered the work - and we had the other exec's signature agreeing. How can they just change their mind now work has started?
TBH there would have been a kick off whatever we had done, and they were adamant they did NOT want to be involved in the planning of the updating of the grave

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ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay · 04/02/2013 18:53

They really are twats aren't they. I can't see how someone can revoke permission. Isn't the point of a signed agreement that it is binding?

At the very least the co executor would be liable for any money wasted on the unused grave and the cost of returning the grave to a descent state. Surely? I am no lawyer btw...

I assume this is all happening at a very stressful time for you anyway, so you have all my sympathy.

Original poster
aPseudonymToFoolHim · 04/02/2013 19:14

I think they should be taken to court myself, but DM, who has the shame of being related to and having feeling for this shower of bastards, just wants a quiet life, and this am was talking of "just putting it back" as she had been screamed at to do. After a lot of reasoning we (dsis and I) managed to persuade her that she was doing a GOOD thing for the RIGHT reasons, and that they were trying to do a hORRIBLE thing just out of sheer badness.
DM had her doubts but eventually was reminded of the deceased's wishes. Then we got the call off the F.D.
It has been a horrendously stressful time, just made worse every time they can twist the knife!
Happily, the F.D had the measure of them on first meeting. This guy is seriously earning his wages, dealing with them!

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