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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to half hope members of staff of a school will also give up some of their time for free at PTA events?

50 replies

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 09:28

Am I digging my heels in unreasonably or is the school being unreasonable here? I'm the treasurer of the PTA and the new school head is looking to charge the PTA for the site manager's overtime at school events, adding £40 to the costs of the Christmas Fayre, for example. I don't expect the site manager to give his time up for free, but I would have hoped that a responsible member of staff - possibly the head himself - would take on the task of securing the school after the fayre, whilst the parents do the tidying up.

The school budget is tight and I've already persuaded the committee that we shouldn't be providing pencils and Pritt sticks, but we have provided some great play equipment for the playground and sound and stage equipment for the drama club and for general school use, amongst other things. So we do spend money on the school, but I don't see that we should be paying the site manager's overtime.

OP posts:

BigBoobiedBertha · 01/02/2013 13:37

YANBU

If the site manager wants to be paid surely that is up to the head. He can pay him out of whatever your raise by your event and it should have nothing to do with you. It is between the head and the site manager. The headteacher can decide to pay or they can do it themselves or get somebody else to volunteer but it shouldn't be up to the PTA to do it. That doesn't really make any sense to me - you are doing a service for the school after all!

YouOldSlag · 01/02/2013 13:37

YANBU. The head is being a bloody jobsworth. I'm a PTA member and I don't just do it do my son can have perks.

the reason for a PTA is:

To establish and improve links between the school and the parents
To encourage community spirit by having social events
To provide enjoyable events for all children (i.e not just mine)
To raise money for equipment that doesn't quite come under the school's remit i.e computery type gadgets, a video camera etc
To provide happy memories of school life.
To involve and engage the children in projects i,e making stuff that can be sold, manning a stall, counting the takings etc

My Dbro is a headmaster and wouldn't dream of docking takings, he'd do the lock up himself and do everything he could to encourage PTA activity. A head isn't a 9-5 job. OP- I'd be pretty unimpressed and think the Head was being a bit hostile to PTA activity and a jobsworth.

teacher123 · 01/02/2013 13:37

hermione it's a standard fee for those kinds of things. Usually because of the inconvenience of not being able to do anything else all day. When I was a keyholder I had a flat rate, it meant I could go home but was on call all day to deal with issues. Was very restrictive.

YouOldSlag · 01/02/2013 13:39

*Sorry, but you aren't doing teachers some kind of a favour by providing resources for your own children.

Compared to running any other small charity, PTAs have a very easy time of fundraising.*

Lovely. What a nice attitude. That's like pissing all over someone's efforts.

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 13:40

BigBoobie, it doesn't work like that. PTA funds are a separate thing from the school budget, and it is not up to head teachers how it is spent. A PTA is a charity linked to a school, they are not actually the school itself.

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 13:44

I'm not pissing all over someone's efforts at all. I have already said I think PTAs do a wonderful job.

I am very appreciative of the PTAs in the schools my children go to and the one I work in, but as I also help run a small charity, I can see that there are plenty of charities who would shit bricks to be able to do things like send out an email for a mufti day and take in £200, or write a paragraph in a newsletter asking for cakes, set up a table, sell cakes that that charity has been donated for half an hour and then bank an easy £50. PTAs are brilliant, and it's outrageous that they need to provide some of the school resources that they need to, but it is true that compared to other small charities run entirely by volunteers, they really do have a very easy time of fundraising.

Original poster

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 13:56

clouds - our school frequently organises cake stalls, special days etc, and donates all the takings to a chosen charity. Perhaps you could ask one of the PTAs you know to do this for your charity too.

OP posts:

DewDr0p · 01/02/2013 13:58

BigBoobie I think the Head is suggesting that the £40 be paid out of PTA funds.

motheroftwoboys · 01/02/2013 14:00

From the other side of the fence. I am an Events Manager at a school and organise both internal and external events. Although I don't get overtime myself (I get time off in lieu) the caretakers at our school do. they are the only staff that can lock up, the Head and other Senior Management can't so any event out of their normal working hours they will have to be paid overtime which is only reasonable! Overtime costs are built into the hire charge for the facilities. I assume most schools, like ours, don't charge facility hire for in-house events including old boys and PTA but the caretakers still have to be paid so unless the school is feeling generous and pays from their coffers then the PTA would have to be charged as it is actual money leaving the budget.

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 14:08

Scholes, the schools I am associated with do hold fundraising events for charities, but they are organised by the schools, not by the PTA.

I have taken part in a few events between the PTAs and my charity with the proceeds being split between the two.

BeerTricksPotter · 01/02/2013 14:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 14:26

As he's not a member of the teaching staff, the site manager was given £50 in John Lewis vouchers at Christmas by the PTA in appreciation of his work. The school has said that was very kind of us. Since then, the school asked for the money for his overtime.

OP posts:

Original poster

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 14:29

Whether organised by the school or the PTA, you've got the same people there to make, sell and buy cakes, or whatever you're doing. Our PTA is happy to organise events raising money for other charities and on these occasions doesn't split the money raised.

OP posts:

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 14:44

Really? The one PTA I am involved with enough to know the details about is a registered charity, and is therefore prevented from raising money for things other than the intended beneficiaries of the charity, because that's the rules from the Charities Commission.

Original poster

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 14:54

At the end of the day, they're just a bunch of volunteers. They are raising money for one cause on a particular day, and ooh, look, what a coincidence, they all just happen to be members of the PTA too.

If anyone cares to object, why?

You've probably just bought a home-made cake that's been baked in a kitchen not inspected by Environmental Health, anyway.

OP posts:

ApocalypseThen · 01/02/2013 15:02

If there's a site manager not on teaching staff, is any other person insured to lock the school?

Original poster

Scholes34 · 01/02/2013 15:11

Good question. I'll check that out.

OP posts:

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 15:52

A bunch of volunteers can raise money for whatever charity they like, they just can't advertise an event as being in aid of one thing when the money is going to go to another. I'm sure no one would object, but different PTAs do things differently.

YouOldSlag · 01/02/2013 15:56

but it is true that compared to other small charities run entirely by volunteers, they really do have a very easy time of fundraising.

Why say that? It just makes people feel bad. Nobody is moaning that the PTA is hard, the thread is about whether the PTA should have to pay overtime wages.

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 16:01

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad. I really wasn't.

To be fair though, OPs comment about it being noticed which teachers go to PTA events made me feel quite bad. I already feel guilty when I can't go to PTA events for other people's children without being made to feel like parents are judging me negatively for doing something other than being with their children.

I made that comment in he context of saying that there was nothing wrong with expecting a PTA to pay for basic costs of running a fundraising event.

Pancakeflipper · 01/02/2013 16:10

PTA fundraising appears to be easy as it has a target audience - all families/carers of the school children. Which changes yearly as new children come into the school and others leave.

But I still look at our PTA with a lot of respect as they really do try to think of new fun ways to get us part with our cash at our school.

Our PTA have raised for other charities - like if there has been a huge disaster somewhere or a parent has been suffering from a serious illness and there's been a charity relevant, then the PTA have held an event for it.

YouOldSlag · 01/02/2013 16:21

Clouds- why do you keep saying "PTA events for other people's children ", its as if you think people are making a demand on you for the benefit of their children and you seem to really resent that.

When I got to PTA events, its for everyone, not my son. I really don't care or mind if teachers can't go, but it would bother me if a Head Teacher wanted £40 for a staffing bill.

aamia · 01/02/2013 16:28

From a teacher's pov, I always turn up and watch a stall/help clear up etc. In the last ten years though, the PTA hasn't raised an awful lot for the time put in, and the money rarely goes towards anything noticeable. The climbing frame and some play equipment outside is all I have noticed - in ten years!

CloudsAndTrees · 01/02/2013 16:54

I don't resent it at all, I have a lot of fun at PTA events run by the school I work in. It's great seeing the children I work with all excited about a disco or whatever, all dressed up. And they like seeing us there too, it's completely different to the usual classroom type environment and I really do enjoy it.

I just don't like the implication that its expected that I go.

The head teacher doesn't want £40 for a staffing bill, he wants the money to pay the person who is doing a job that is essential to the event being run. Why should a caretaker work for free just because he works at a school? I realise it would be nice if he did, but it shouldn't be expected. That's the point.

I agree with the OP that the head should go to the event, but that doesn't mean he should be there right from the start right until everything has been completely cleared, so from his POV it might be better for the caretaker to be there. And the caretaker deserves to be paid for his time, because his presence is essential for making that event happen. It's just a basic cost that should be factored in. I don't suppose the head feels very comfortable asking one if his staff to work for free, and not should he. He shouldn't have to give up his entire day either. Be at the event, yes, but not before anyone else arrives until after everyone else leaves if he doesn't want to.

YouOldSlag · 01/02/2013 18:02

Clouds, well I don't think the caretaker should work for free either but I do think that he should not be the only keyholder.

Our school caretaker wanted to go home early in the snow, so someone else locked up.

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