to think most part-time workers don't know what's about to hit them?! (Universal Credit)

[aufaniae]

Do you work part-time and get Working Tax Credit or Housing Benefit?

Did you know that once you're on Universal Credit, you'll be expected to attend the Job Centre to prove that you're looking for better paid work / more hours, in much the same way as unemployed people must prove they're looking for work.

If the Job Centre find an interview for you, you will have to attend (with 48 hours notice) even if it clashes with your paid work.

If you are offered a job with more hours, or better pay than your current one, you will be obliged to take it, even if you have good reason for not wanting to e.g. it's only a temporary post (whereas your current one is permanent) / has no training & worse prospects than your current job / makes picking your children up from school impossible / requires you to travel much further / has nothing to do with the career you're following.

If you don't attend the interview and/or take the job, your UC will be sanctioned, you will lose the UC for months or even years (depending on if it's your first infraction).

You will be forced to continue "upgrading" your job until you earn the equivalent of minimum wage for 35 hours a week.

I suspect there are lots of people (e.g. parents who work part time so they can pick their kids up from school) who will be affected by this, but don't realise it yet.

More info here

scazy At the end of the document it talks about the deductions from UC, there is an earnings disregard and then any money you earn above the disregard has a tapered deduction from your UC amount. Work out first your basic award according to your qualifying criteria and then look at DEDUCTIONS from this amount and that will be the UC amount you will receive.

janey - this is exactly why many people employ full time nannies. as especially in london, once you have 2 children in full time nursery it is cheaper to get even a qualified nanny

It clearly says "You may be paid the following monthly 'elements' under UC unless the benefits cap applies". They are all the exact monthly equivalent of various benefits which are currently being claimed.

The sense of entitlement from some able bodied people here who want to be able to sit at home with their able bodied children, while lone parents like me work full time to support them, is astonishing. I have sympathy for those who've been made redundant, but if you have chosen not to work at all or work a meagre amount of hours, I have no sympathy whatsoever. Did you not think about how you would support your children before you had them? Or you just assumed the state would pick up the bill for years? State welfare should be a short term safety net for people who lose their jobs, until they find another one. It should not be a long term lifestyle choice because you believe it's better for your kids to be at home with them.... yet that choice is being paid for by other people who don't stay at home with their kids. What makes your family so special eh? Yes childcare and school holidays are hard work, but you think about all of that before you have a child.

loumae, out of interest - where do you stand on parents who would work, but find that the cost of childcare means they would be paying out more than they earn?

and of course nothing changes when you've planned for your children financially does it LouMae?

People don't ever reach a stage where benefits become a long term reality do they?

....and yet these are the folk who will suffer most with these changes. The country is broke so we introduce a massive change costing more to implement than we will save....clever!

My MP emailed back and he is looking into it and getting back to me.

WRT whether both parents have to be working.

Il get it from the horses mouth!!

Rainrain- If you are single or low earning dh you can claim it though?

I have an 'old' friend who was a financial journo all his life but has been retired many years. He has always advised me with my property ventures buying and selling and has never been wrong. He is retired but we still chat about teh economy and even though he is an old tory with a good life and no money worries he thinks this country is finished! He just thinks the debt levels and the lack of industry and trade will never change and he really sees years of depression Even 5 years ago he was a bit optimistic.

I thought I would return to work my mil give up her paid job to look after my children. I didnt know I would get PND or that my fil would get ill and need mil to care for him :(

I agree with the pessimism. I just don't think a country of this size and infrastucture can cope with the number of people living here. Look at other countries. A lot of them have a lot smaller populations. Take New Zealand. Same size as UK. Under 5 million people. This country has huge problems.

sorry chesty, don't understand question?

Even if you pay more than you earn you still get it back?

I agree vivienne. I think the bigger picture is terrifying. I spoke to him last week he is getting very old now but I still think he is on the ball when it comes to this. He also thinks there will be a war in teh next 5-7 years which is even worse

Even if you pay more than you earn you still get it back?

Lou how do you ensure you will never be made redundant, face ill health, death of a partner or some other financial disaster. Do you perfect people have psychic powers that us scummy, entitled fuckups don't? Why do your children deserve to exist more than mine?

I think there is a lot of burying head in the sand. How can a country of this size take more and more influx of people and maintain health service, education, housing and have enough jobs to go round. It can't. And this should have been tackled before now. If people think these are hard times I'd hate to see them cope with really hard times. I'm not meaning to be unsympathetic just realistic.

It's not possible to foresee every eventuality, but I think the point loumae is making is that there is wide variation in the level of personal responsibility people take, and that's not ok. Just through skimming MN it's easy to see that some mums feel entitled to have the pre school years at home, or to have a job which enables them to do school drops and pick ups, or they begrudge having the month of August where they pay out more than they earn in childcare. Whereas other mums see it as part and parcel of having children that you are prepared to fork out for childcare, you don't assume you will get a nice little school hours job etc

Also, some parents are prepared to stop at the number of children they can support without needing state help whereas others don't (and I'm not talking about situations where people have twins unexpectedly)
The fact is, people aren't all clones, some people are prepared to work harder than others (who are equally capable and able bodied) and I think the UK has reached a point where not only can we not afford the welfare state in the form it's become, many people are not prepared to put up with the injustice of working harder and longer and not being any better off.
We would have quite liked 3 children but stopped at 2 because we couldn't afford childcare for more. We even took out insurance against twins second time round because we have a familial history of them and we'd have been up shit creek! So it does seem really strange to see other people choosing to have 3, 4 or even more and expecting subsidies to finance their choice.
The welfare state has become unrecognisable from what was intended. It's not a safety net; it acts as a disincentive to people to be self reliant. NMW should be higher, and people shouldn't be having to rely on all sorts of top ups, which they then progressively lose if they start to work longer hours or in better paying, more challenging jobs.

aha, I see - I think - fwiw, the margins are so small that individual circumstances can wipe out benefits. Friends' experiences (not mine) include having to wrestle with commute times/costs to work, childcare unfriendly hours, wrap around or short notice occasional care not being available etc.

It's a lot more complicated than 'work pays x' and 'childcare costs x'.

(I am self employed and claim nothing, btw - this is just what I see happening with friends. I don't know personally anyone who feels 'entitled' to handouts....)

That's what makes it hard to cope with viv, the knowledge it will only get worse. That and the fact that many people feel it gives them the right to treat you and worse still your children as if you are shit on their shoe.

70% of child care is covered Rain. This assumes you are from a low income family. If not then that it your choice to work and pay childcare. I think as females we all know what having children can do to your career so there is that to take into account.

I know that juggling work and children has messed up my career and earning potential even though I did some more qualifications but I choose to stay in my lovely area to live and well paid jobs are hard to come by.

It is hard to see a way out of all this. Without assistance from the state wages do not cover the basics there are no 2 ways about it those are the facts. The deficit reduction programme is so harsh that people are in shock after the prosperity years that came before. But sadly all the prosperity was in fact debt it wasn't real money it was borrowed and now that needs paid back plus there are millions of people without work. Even if all the vacancies in the uk were filled there would still be about 4 million unemployed. We also have nothing to trade as we don't produce anything that other people want at a competitive price. I worry for ds he is 18 and I don't know what will happen to his generation

We didn't plan to claim anything when we planned a family. We didn't claim anything at first either. We only claimed out of sheer desperation after 2 lots of redundancy and our savings ran out before either of us succeeded in our job hunting. I'd give anything to go back to the days when we didn't have to claim anything, claiming is degrading and unsuccessful job hunting is soul destroying.

I really resent the implication that anyone on here who mentions personal responsibility is claiming some moral high ground and making out they are 'perfect' while everyone else is just lazy scum.

FWIW I'm sure many others (us included) have faced really hard times along the way, including redundancy, illness... It doesn't make someone an uncaring bastard just because they recognise that some People have a big sense of entitlement.

We are ok (at the moment- but who knows, there isn't much job security these days) but god we've faced enough lean times in the past... No family nearby so having to pay all our childcare from when the kids were 6 months, struggling with getting out the door by 7.30 in the morning for the nursery drop.. And even with us both working we often really struggled to get through the month. You wouldn't have seen me posting about that at the time because Internet was a luxury we couldn't afford . I am truly sympathetic to people who can't work, but people who don't want to, or would prefer to work part time subsidised by others- well, no, I'm reserving my empathy for those who need it

I think most people feel sympathy for a family who has fallen on hard times. But what usually happens. Scenario. One person loses their job. Can't manage. Not entitled to any benefits because one person still working. Not entitled to housing benefit because they have a mortgage. So that is why I have lost faith in the benefit system. Not because I am unsympathetic. So these people might have paid in for years but get nothing because they don't qualify.