to think most part-time workers don't know what's about to hit them?! (Universal Credit)

[aufaniae]

Do you work part-time and get Working Tax Credit or Housing Benefit?

Did you know that once you're on Universal Credit, you'll be expected to attend the Job Centre to prove that you're looking for better paid work / more hours, in much the same way as unemployed people must prove they're looking for work.

If the Job Centre find an interview for you, you will have to attend (with 48 hours notice) even if it clashes with your paid work.

If you are offered a job with more hours, or better pay than your current one, you will be obliged to take it, even if you have good reason for not wanting to e.g. it's only a temporary post (whereas your current one is permanent) / has no training & worse prospects than your current job / makes picking your children up from school impossible / requires you to travel much further / has nothing to do with the career you're following.

If you don't attend the interview and/or take the job, your UC will be sanctioned, you will lose the UC for months or even years (depending on if it's your first infraction).

You will be forced to continue "upgrading" your job until you earn the equivalent of minimum wage for 35 hours a week.

I suspect there are lots of people (e.g. parents who work part time so they can pick their kids up from school) who will be affected by this, but don't realise it yet.

More info here

Self employment is a tricky one, and they haven't actually made any concrete rulings on it yet so no one can say precisely what is going to happen. Have you looked at the National Enterprise Network? They seem to be regularly updating with info

in depth from July 2012

There are further updates if you search the site.

"Just as an example i know a 50 year old nurse who got her council house years ago when she was a retail worker on min wage (fair enough) now she is a full time nurse, no kids, taking home 1700 a month with 3 bedrooms. She really doesn't need it and the waiting list for council houses in her area is huge."

The problem here as I see it is that in the years since the 80s, the council has been prevented from reinvesting in new stock.

If she's been there years she is presumably part of the community. I don't think she should be forced to move out now the kids have left. Community is important IMO. If she's paying out of her own pocket, her rent it going straight into the public purse, and she's contributing a lot more to the public purse than many people living in owner-occupied or private rented properties.

The problem here is a lack of housing and one which could be addressed by building more council houses, rather than forcing people out of their homes.

Encouraging people in her situation to take in lodgers could be a positive step IMO.

Rainrain - the cap is a different thing though isn't it? This is in regards to conditionality to work. Those with caring responsibilities are exempt from having to take work which interferes with their caring responsibilities, maybe that's where the confusion has arisen?

"Accounting web" on self-employment (published last summer)

"Draft regulations setting out conditions and procedures for claimants of the proposed Universal Credit (UC) will impose new reporting requirements that put the self-employed at a disadvantage, tax advisers are warning.

Gabelle?s Paula Tallon, a member of the ICAEW?s SME tax committee sounded the alarm this week after reviewing the draft regulations and 59 pages of accompanying notes.

?The purpose of the universal credit is to simplify the benefits system, but what is causing concern is how self-employed individuals are required to report their income. The reporting requirements are different to those currently being consulted on for small businesses. It makes no sense to introduce another system. These proposals are unworkable and will hit the self-employed severely,? ...

?The new UC regulations will actively discourage self-employment and undermine the policies of reducing administrative burdens on small businesses. For low earners this is no incentive to start a new business.?

...

Those eligible for UC who are in employment will receive monthly benefit payments based on their earnings in the previous assessment period, calculated from figures supplied via HMRC?s real time information (RTI) system. Anyone earning income outside of PAYE will have to declare those earnings separately.

There will be a minimum income floor to limit the amount of UC a self-employed person can claim. This threshold is intended to prevent UC from subsidising non-viable or low-paying businesses. Those launching new businesses will be entitled to a once-only start-up period where they will be excused the DWP?s usual work search/availability criteria.

Under the proposed procedures, earnings from self-employment will be reported montly to the DWP on a simplified cash income basis, via an online tool that will ask them for their total business income and details of outgoing payments under seven defined expense categories.

If a claimant does not report his/her income within seven days of the period end, their payment will be suspended. UC benefits will be withdrawn if the claimant fails to make an income report within four weeks.

?The seven-day deadline is really tight, and the way information is required is different to the existing GAAP rules and those being proposed under the new cash accounting approach. Businesses already provide information to HMRC, and now they?re getting a completely different system recording something else. Why have a parallel system? There?s no consistency,? Tallon said.

?There are a lot of other flaws,? she added, highlighting points that were raised by other ICAEW SME committee members:

• Potential discrimination against businesses with no internet access, including security concerns for those who may have to use public computers to submit their monthly income reports

• No formal document exists to provide the required ?proof of tax registration with HMRC?

• Ongoing uncertainty for workers about whether their employer is treating them as self-employed; they may not be aware whether or not their earnings are reported via RTI, leading to potential loss of benefits

• Ambiguity over the definition of people who are ?in a position analogous to that of a sole owner or partner in the business?.

... Tallon is keen for the profession to express its misgivings about the UC regulations to the DWP.

?Accountants outraged at the proposals should feed their comments to their professional bodies so representations can be made,? Tallon said."

Link here

More on self-employment from Freelance UK:

"The government needs an ?urgent rethink? on how freelancers and the self-employed will be dealt with under universal credit...

Sounding the call, advisors to the smallest business sector said that, rather than universal credit ensuring that ?work always pays?, the self-employed will fall short of the mantra by actually facing disincentives to taking on self-employed work.

In addition to foisting extra bureaucracy on business owners, which the government has vowed to avoid, the proposals will see an income dip for many self-employed people so significant that it will make their independent careers prohibitive.

The Low Incomes Tax Reform Group added: ?The proposed minimum income floor will further distort the picture and will mean that the self-employed will receive less benefit than employed claimants even though their income may be the same.?

The recent growth in the UK's self-employed army is therefore at risk, the Federation of Small Businesses warns, as is its seemingly welcome but disputed impact on joblessness.

?The reason why the recession hasn?t proved as devastating on employment as first feared is because huge numbers of people laid off from their regular jobs have turned to self-employment,? the FSB said.

?However, the government needs to be clear these proposed changes to Universal Credit could reverse this trend and remove a valuable route back into the labour market through self-employment. Entrepreneurs and small firms already find tax complicated to deal with and these proposed changes are completely at odds with ministers? wishes to simplify the tax system.?

Under the current framework, the LITRG said working tax credits, due to be replaced by universal credit from 2013 for four years, have generally ?worked well? for the self-employed, for recognising the same profits and losses as for tax purposes.

This means that where the tax system supports the self-employed through start-up or loss-making periods, or times when they are investing heavily to grow their business, tax credits do likewise.

?Under the universal credit rules as currently proposed those advantages will be lost,? LITRG objected. ?Businesses will have to draw up two sets of accounts ? one for HMRC, the other for DWP ? and the latter will have to be done monthly, thereby massively increasing bureaucratic burdens.?

Mr Thomas scoffed: ?The government say that universal credit will ensure that work always pays. That will not be the case for many self-employed.

?There will be disincentives to taking up self-employed work, leaving some people unnecessarily trapped on welfare.?"

Link

Basically, my understanding from what I've read is that if you have a new business idea the Job Centre will need to approve it if you're on UC. Once you're self employed, you will be given a grace period (a year has been suggested) to set up your business.

After a year, if you still claim UC, you will need to be earning at least the equivalent of full-time NMW (less if you have DCs). You will need to submit your accounts monthly through a new online system, in addition to yearly to HMRC. The two systems will be connected and must tally. If you go under NMW, then you will be subject to conditionality including attending work-focused interviews, work preparation (including mandatory work activity and community work) work search and work availability.

The system doesn't seem to be set up to take into account investment in stock, equipment etc, nor the fact that many businesses work on cycles longer than a month and might well have no income for several of months, then a big pay off in another month. It also doesn't account for the fact that new businesses do often take a while to get off the ground.

If I have misunderstood this happy to be corrected!

I expect for most of us it is the uncertainty of where we will stand financially that has us all most worried. But I genuinely believe that there are far better more productive ways to overhaul the benefits system in this country that have far less impact on lone parent and low income families. And there are a million cost saving and long term investment plans that the government aren't considering since they don't suit the agenda of demonising the 'benefit scrounges'

Rose, I understand what you are saying. I am concerned that there may be 'no more money left' as that nice Mr Byrne said. How is this all to be paid for except by borrowing which is kicking to can of worms down the road for our kids and their kids to pick up. (I may have mixed some metaphors there).

Society in a democracy should be a joint venture run for the benefit of the participants. I don't see this in the UK at all, I am not sure if it ever has been TBH.

Citizens should be working as hard as they can, if they can, and in return they should be able to expect a helping hand if things go tits up.

The problems we have now have been caused by an erosion from either end of the economic spectrum. Big employers grinding wages down, driven by competition from overseas due to globalization and their own greed. At the other end people expecting to just sail through life by popping out babies.

Thus the system has fallen into disrepute to the majority in the middle. The trust has been destroyed. Don't know the answer I'm afraid. We just worked, raised our kids and kept our heads down. Now we are looking to leave.

On the plus side all those self employed absent parents claiming to earn less than minimum wage will be forced to look for more work/declare higher earnings therefore increasing child support payments albeit from extremely paltry to moderately paltry amounts.

I meant to say aufaniae that yes I accept that when you take Into account the housing benefit issue that some families with disabled children might indeed be worse off under the bedroom tax issue.

Generally though from what I have read there is some inbuilt protection. There will be people substantially poorer under UC though.....and I don't think some of the issues have been thought through.

"I expect for most of us it is the uncertainty of where we will stand financially that has us all most worried."

I completely agree, and that's why I try to find the actual documents, rather than opinion pieces, they are sometime massively skewed to suit the writers agenda (whether pro or anti). It's a horribly scary time and I really disapprove of blogs which deliberately go out to upset people by presenting biased opinion as facts, because they make people worry unnecessarily.

Have read 'void' and can see that this will affect at least two people in my department. They work part time so their benefits are not affected. Seems there might have to be a change in their working hours.

seems to me the biggest waste of money goes on paying out housing benefit
council housing should never have been sold off
it should have remained there for the people that need it, now the goverment is stuck paying crazy amount to private landlords
bonkers
totally bonkers

I agree absolutely redbobblehat.

Do you know what makes me sick?

Trying to explain that being made redundant was not a lifestyle choice. Sick of feeling I have to justify why I chose part time over unemployment. Sick of people complaining I waste money on things I never spend money on. Sick of being told I can't be trying/stupid if I haven't found anything better. Sick of feeling I have to justify eating or switching on heating.

..after 30 years of employment and paying taxes I feel guilty when I hand over my NHS card entitling me to free prescriptions. The woman behind the counter doesnt know I have worked for the past 30 years. She just sees yet another benefit claimant. ....and I feel judged even though I shouldn't.

I can also testify to daft job centre decisions. DH was told to go for a call centre job, he is deaf.

Come to Scotland, Jake, all prescriptions are free here, regardless of age, income or anything. You just have to live here.....

The Job Centre told my friend she should go on a literacy course to improve her prospects. She's a teacher with two post-grad qualifications and is qualified to teach a literacy course!

She really wanted to suggest that it was the Job Centre employee who was in need of a literacy course to help him read her CV!

"Just as an example i know a 50 year old nurse who got her council house years ago when she was a retail worker on min wage (fair enough) now she is a full time nurse, no kids, taking home 1700 a month with 3 bedrooms. She really doesn't need it and the waiting list for council houses in her area is huge."'

The problem is if you take a home away from a council tenant that gets a job or a better paid job then you are taking away the incentive to 'better' themselves. Would you strive for a better job if you would lose your home? Why should only those who don't do that get to keep theirs? In addition 1700 a month isn't much to get a mortgage these days or even rent and pay all the other bills..

Well Rose, isn't that interesting that you support free prescriptions for all in Scotland when it isn't all funded by Scottish taxpayers. So you get to enjoy that benefit when I have to choose whether to get the preventer inhaler or the reliver inhaler this month because I can't afford both. (In fact the free prescription system in the UK is a place where a lot of money could be saved, but that's a different conversation)

Please can anyone tell me the conditions i would face being a lone parent and carer to child aged 6, I have read about lone parent and child under 5 but the carer bit isnt clear, can anyone help please?

Amused by the job centre tories...

I myself had a job focused interview some time ago when I claimed income support as a single parent. I was asked if I had any special needs. I explained that I had severe dyscalcular and therefore I am unable to work with figures or complete simple maths tasks.

The woman nodded and tapped a few buttons and then suggested there was a fantastic new job I could go for...

... as an accounts assistant.

Thanks for listening to me.

In the end I found a job on my own.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with job centres trying to find people work, or most of the people who work there. But they really have to listen to people and be aware that without the benefit system and the unemployed they wouldn't even have a job themselves. There is no need for the level of contempt I've experienced before.

Ha! Stories! Not Tories!

The job centre don't do their jobs properly. Their focus is not to find the right job for the right person, meaning they stay in that job, progress in that company and long term are less likely to become dependent on benefits again. They are focused on meeting figures and targets. I also think their approach is wrong. They should be working with candidates on all their applications, making sure that they are applying for the jobs they claim to be and that they are doing so without deliberately sabotaging the likelihood of them actually getting an interview. The whole system is twisted, and could be far better organised. It is also much bigger than just overhauling our approach to benefits and employment. It is changing our approach to homelessness, drug and alcohol addiction, education. It is an interlocking societal web that can't be fixe with the change of one process.