to think most part-time workers don't know what's about to hit them?! (Universal Credit)

[aufaniae]

Do you work part-time and get Working Tax Credit or Housing Benefit?

Did you know that once you're on Universal Credit, you'll be expected to attend the Job Centre to prove that you're looking for better paid work / more hours, in much the same way as unemployed people must prove they're looking for work.

If the Job Centre find an interview for you, you will have to attend (with 48 hours notice) even if it clashes with your paid work.

If you are offered a job with more hours, or better pay than your current one, you will be obliged to take it, even if you have good reason for not wanting to e.g. it's only a temporary post (whereas your current one is permanent) / has no training & worse prospects than your current job / makes picking your children up from school impossible / requires you to travel much further / has nothing to do with the career you're following.

If you don't attend the interview and/or take the job, your UC will be sanctioned, you will lose the UC for months or even years (depending on if it's your first infraction).

You will be forced to continue "upgrading" your job until you earn the equivalent of minimum wage for 35 hours a week.

I suspect there are lots of people (e.g. parents who work part time so they can pick their kids up from school) who will be affected by this, but don't realise it yet.

More info here

I work 18 hours a week, get CB and a small amount of WTC. I don't get CTB or HB - how will this affect me?

Oh, and CTC

I think I am being patronising but it is born out of sadness more than anything else. If the working classes stood together we could achieve so much so that people wouldn't have to be slaves to work, sacrificing their health, families and lives in the process. These reforms aren't about making people more accountable able they are about increasing the shackles around your own neck. Hating your fellow worker whilst the rich are allowed to wander scot free is just so wrong.

And as it happens, I do have quite a loot of knowledge on this subject. My family is very wealthy, I would be having dinner in the House of Lords tonight if I were not in bed ill. A family member is courted by leading politicians hopeful (ever wrongly) he may sling them a donation. I volunteer in the Citizens advice bureau because (a) I don't have to work to maintain a wonderful lifestyle and (b) by doing so I see the implications and understand the true effects of these changes as a whole.

We all need food, heating, fuel and a home. All the companies that provide these have just posted massive new year profits. All these companies can only do this with the subsides of housing benefit and working tax credit. If they paid more, accepted less profit, there would be no need for universal credit. There are currently 2.7 million unemployed (approx - depending on figures) and we want those that do work to work more - it's crazy.

Good luck peppermint latte. I really hope you get to achieve what you want, crossing my fingers and toes for you! There is one set of rules for the rich and one for the poor. I see both sets of rules and it makes me scream in frustration. The dice is so heavily weighted against the working person.

beautifulbabyboy thank you. What a great post from you, you sound like a good person with values.

I completely agree with your last paragraph. The way that wealth is distributed in this country is disgusting.

But this

These reforms aren't about making people more accountable able they are about increasing the shackles around your own neck. Hating your fellow worker whilst the rich are allowed to wander scot free is just so wrong.

I don't agree with. I don't think that expecting people to do more to support themselves when they could is about increasing shackles, I think it's about increasing personal responsibility. The NMW could be raised to £10ph with the cost of everything else staying the same, and we would still need some kind of incentive to make people pay for themselves as much as they possibly could.

I think it's quite sad that you think that people who don't completely disagree with the whole concept of UC are people who hate their fellow worker. I don't think they do. They might harbour some resentment about people who choose the easier option when they themselves have chosen the harder one and are still struggling, but that's not the same thing. And those people can still resent, or disagree with, those at the top of the income scale at the same time.

It's divide and conquer beautiful. However we must recognise that many of us are considered not worthy of being alive never mind having a life.

I read a workhouse report from the 1880s it complained that the inmates were "allowed the needless frivolity of bread" this is what we have regressed to.

Compassion is no longer considered a virtue but a failing. Success is measured by how many people you can destroy or at least kick while they are down to keep them there.

And yet more words being put into my mouth.....so odd. Have reported those who persist in misrepresenting my views.

Lazybastard and peppermint - see you on the next workers march through London!! That quote from the 1880s scares me in its prevelance today.

All I ask is that anyone reading this realises the system is not weighted in favour of the working man or woman. That what we should strive for is everyone working less for a better share of the spoils of treasure. If instead people insist workers scrap it out for crapper jobs, longer hours, worse pay, the only result will be the silver spoon in my mouth getting sadly bigger as the evil Cameron and sidekick George will pass more of the profit my way.

On that note - the flu has done me in. Off to sleep.

Hope you feel better soon beautiful.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I am actually considering joining the labour party, not a thing I would ever have thought I would say.

Ramsay MacDonald was the son of a farmer educated in the local charitable village school. He was also illegitimate which stigma wise was a big thing those days. Can anyone imagine someone with a similar background becoming PM today?

beautifulbabyboy how refreshing that someone in a privileged position feels this way. How about you running for PM?!!

Lazybastard same here, I'm surprisingly joining.

MariusEarlobe you have to do a thread reporting back to us to let us know how it's going. I wish you luck.

Beautifulbabyboy - at what point do you give in ...

People generally have a hard time seeing the big picture, which you summarised rather neatly. They often feel patronised when you try to show it to them. But it's still worth carrying on and not giving up!

You only give up when you're dead, giving up is not an option.

The NMW could be raised to £10ph with the cost of everything else staying the same, and we would still need some kind of incentive to make people pay for themselves as much as they possibly could.

I disagree 100% with this, Clouds. It's sad that you have such a dismal view of ordinary people.

5dcs (and other self employed) -

Universal Credit as it stands will royally fuck us up. For a start, we will have to submit MONTHLY accounts. Even if we already do quarterly vat etc. This is because UC will be paid monthly.

Often if you are self employed, your monthly income and expenditure can fluctuate a lot. Some months I earn nothing. Other months I earn several thousand. Sometimes a high earning month would show up as very little profit purely because that is the one month when I buy some expensive kit, as an allowable expense.

None of that matters on an end of year tax return - it only shows income/profit/loss for the year.

But under current UC proposals, earning nothing or a little in one month (they have not yey decided the actual cut off yet, afaik) would have me hauled in to the job centre and made to attend interviews.

This is how the reward the self starters and small time entrepeneurs, who set up as self employed INSTEAD of trying to scrape by on benefits without working.

Ok I work 20 hours a week over five days in a school. I have three school age children. So if I have to leave that job and work full time. I then have to pay 3.50 every morning for little two to got to breakfast club. 13 quid every night for after school club. 16.50 a day. That's just term time. 6 weeks of the summer holidays how much will that cost to keep them in some holiday club where they won't get to do much and mostly indoors all summer. I couldn't afford it. Then what happens? Once they are older I will be first in the que for getting a full time job but my issue is the childcare.

Is def 24 hours or just 'during school hours'???

Oh I'm a lone parent, I love my job but once the kids are older I won't need a term time job so will look to change to full time. I'll have to get a evening job maybe, I had one before but my children got very upset with never seeing me and all the different places they were shipped to every night, not getting home till late on school nights, never being able to do school clubs or swimming lessons etc etc

agree with garlic there

clouds, where do you get this view point from? I was brought up in a council scheme and I have known a few folk who don't want to work. But the majority always worked, or strived to work if they were out of a job. For every person I know who refused to work, I could name ten who worked and paid their way, or who tried to get a job if unemployed.

where do you get your viewpoint clouds...and rose?

is it from hearsay, the media or actual people you know?

Btw - the other thing which will be a disaster is how payroll information is shared (for PAYE workers).

monthly payroll info will be sent to HMRC (known for their appalling admin and inefficiency). That info must tally with information sent by the employee's BANK (and banks never make mistakes, do they).

All of this is handled by a new IT system (even better).

If anything goes wrong and this info about pay is not communicated perfectly, then it will screw up that month's UC payment, and be a mess that has to be sorted out by the claimant. Presumably by phoning HMRC. On one of their premium rate phone lines.

marius - do you know how self employed will be affected by UC? (I posted about 5 posts before you....)

They are "proposals" they are not written in stone.

Scaremongering is at it does.

I thought they wanted to encourage business start up to drive the economy? Is it not common for businesses to take time to start making a good profit especially due to start up costs etc?