to tell my Dad he has to leave?

[picklepepper]

This could be a long one, but I'd really appreciate some impartial views and advice.
18 months ago my Dad suffered a nervous breakdown, lost his job, left the family home, and generally had a really awful time. For over a year, we barely heard from him, we didn't know where he was living and he had no phone to contact him... we relied on him occasionally coming round just to know that he was ok. Anyway, with counselling and some time later, he now seems to be much better than he was, though he still isn't working.

Since last summer, he was living in a flat and we were in much closer contact with him. In around September he started talking about how a nuisance family had moved into one of the neighbouring flats. Every time he came round he told how they had been stealing from other residents, inviting all sorts of people back, threatening the other residents and generally causing a nuisance. I had said to him that if he needed to, he could stay with me and DH until he could find somewhere new, and he eventually asked to take me up on my offer at the beginning of December. Now I thought it was clear that this was just a temporary measure to get him out of that flat, until he found somewhere new. However, he is still staying here in our house, and my DH is pushing me to find out when he is going to leave.

He does try to help out around the house, he's fixed a few things etc. but he's here all day every day, he eats with us, and obviously uses our wifi, heating, baths etc, but he doesn't contribute financially for staying here or eating our food (which would have been fine if it was only for a couple of weeks, but after 2 months it is beginning to grate a little...) and I really don't know what to do. On the one hand I really just want our house back to ourselves and to not be funding someone elses living costs. On the other hand, it has been nice to know that Dad is ok, after so long worrying about him all the time, and the last thing I want to do is to make him feel like he's not wanted so that he leaves with nowhere else to go.

The other thing to mention is that he now has a new partner. They haven't been together long, but I'm sure he hasn't been truthful with her about his situation. She has stayed here a couple of weekends, and makes comments about 'his house' and 'his job', and I wonder if perhaps his reluctance to leave is somehow connected to this?

I've no idea how to approach this with him. He is so reserved, he keeps everything to himself, and he finds it hard to talk about things with others..... and I hate confrontation. So if anyone had any inspiring thoughts or ideas on what the good thing to do would be, I would be so grateful to hear them.

Pickled, you could also try the "Look Dad, I've seen a perfect flat for you in the paper/on the internet - shall we go and look at it this weekend?" which would open up the dialogue about his intentions.

LoP - report!

So in your opinion I am being unreasonable then andubelievedthat? What would you advise that I do? I mean that in the most genuine way, I am bewildered, stuck between 2 people that I love dearly, and I'm asking for advice.... what's your advice?

PMd you, pickled :)

I agree that I cannot fathom the attituded. DH comes from a different culture and talking like this would be deeply, deeply shameful for him. The idea that you wouldn't actually WANT to support and provide for your parents when they need you would be totally alien to him.

I bet there were times when you were a teenager that he resented how much of his money he spent supporting you.... But isn't that what a family does? They support the weaker members when they need it either through being children, ill or elderly.

He cooks you meals, he does DIY and he's your Dad. He's not some random sponging mate who you said could stay on the sofa for a few nights but has stayed 2 months and never lifted a finger.

Andubelievedthat - she's not saying she's kicking him out - just trying to work out how to nicely move him forward in his life, which incorporates where he lives.. Your post is pretty harsh.
It's one thing having your dad to stay, having him move in permanently plus lady friends is pushing it - (and generally leads to arguments with DH's...)

Attitude, not attituded!

There's nothing wrong with supporting him to find his own place.

Part of his recovery is to be more independent. It doesn't help him, long term, to be dependent on you.

but you do need to put his partner straight. If she's making comments about 'his' house - it's time to say actually, this is our house.

Of course YANBU! I can understand that you want to help him but if he is not even offering to pay towards his upkeep then you are justified in helping him to get back on his own two feet.

Misleading his new partner about his situation is not going to help him in the long run.

Thanks, Thumb, my first PM . I'm headed into a meeting now, but I'll pop back later on to see if there's anything else to reply to. Thank you helpful people, it means such a lot.

I think I may have overused the word help in my post.

I would be breezy - think upbeat and breezy, not confrontational.

"Dad! It's been lovely having you here and I'm so proud of how far you've come in the last few months. But you remember how we said you staying here was just a stop gap, right? Shall we set a date for you to move out and work towards finding you a new flat together? How would that be?" and continue by stressing the positives of his new life in his new flat.

Also you need to sort out getting a contribution from him if you can: "Hey dad! Money is a bit tight with you staying so would it be OK to ask for a contribution towards food and bills while you're here? DH and I thought maybe £x a week would cover things, that'd be OK wouldn't it?".

Ignore the guilt trippers saying you should have him stay forever, they are on a different planet from the rest of us...

Yes.... The planet where 2 months supporting a parent when they need it after they supported you for maybe 18 years actually doesn't seem that much to ask.

FIL has supported his mentally ill Mother for 31 years. Why? She is his Mother, he loves her and feels as her son it is duty to help her if he can.

Jesus, I hope if I'm ever really down on my luck my DC won't ask a bunch of internet strangers for help on how to kick me out.

It's not about wanting to kick him out though is it Astley? The father needed help to recover, and his daughter has offered that help. Part of the recovery is becoming more independent and getting his life back. Letting him live in a fantasy world where he has no home, no income, and no way of changing while allowing him to live a lie with his new partner is not helping the recovery and is in fact only stalling, if not stopping it.

OP - tell him no to his partner staying this weekend. Discuss how his recovery is going, how does he feel, is his therapy going well, how has the flat hunt been going etc. You are obviously a caring person and will not abandon him once he's moved out, I'm sure you'll offer him support and help when he's in his own place.

I suspect living with you is the easy option right now. Sometimes we want the easy option, but it's not always what we need. Sometimes what we need is a bit of tough love. No one can accuse you of not helping your father, don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise I hope things can get easier for your family soon.

Astley The father is now well again. He managed fine in his flat but some bad neighbours made his life a misery. He doesn't need to be living with the OP and would be fine in a flat of his own.
The OP and her father made an arrangement that it would be a short term stay while he found a new place. Her father has not kept his end of the bargain. He is not contributing to the costs of his living in her house despite being able to.
In any circumstance this would lead to bad feeling.
It is important the OP sorts this out in a loving and friendly way before she or her husband can't stand it any more and the relationship sours. This may lead to the OP withdrawing support in the future. When you have a family of your own to support, you need to be realistic about your resources for supporting others and not give so much that you make yourself ill, or potentially harm your marriage because your DH gets fed up of you not taking action.
Guilt tripping the OP into putting up with it while resentment breeds doesn't help anyone.

Astely I think there's a HUGE difference between supporting someone and saying come live for free in my house, we'll pay for all the food, bills, heating oh and while you're about it ask a stranger to come sleep here with you too.

OP hopefully as he's not had to spend any money over the last couple of months your dad will have a deposit saved up for a new lease somewhere.

Astley, I really don't see this as kicking her father out. It actually is about supporting him - supporting him to be independent, to get back on his feet, and to deal with the real world. The current living arrangement - him staying at his daughter's house as a guest - is like a little bubble, a holiday where normal day-to-day life (bills, decisions, plans, choices) are suspended. Effectively, it allows him to 'tread water', rather than swim. And he needs to do that - continuing as he is indefinitely will diminish him, and his ability to be an independent adult.

Plus, the fact that his new partner seems to be under the illusion that OP's house is her father's, and that he has a job - oh dear, he could be lying to her (even if only by omission), then he's got to deal with the lies (own up or continue with them), and it all gets on top of him again and he might end up with another breakdown.

It is not just in OP's interests that he create his own home (and of course her DH's) it is most certainly in the best interests of her father.

People think they are being nice and kind and helpful when they 'look after' someone for their whole life - but while it is kind, as in it is done with a kind heart, it's not helpful in that it's not in someone's best interests to create dependence. It really isn't.

It might be easier for them (the person being looked after). It might feel safer. It might feel like it's right to look after someone for ever - But it's not the best thing to do for someone, unless they are so ill that there is no hope of recovery and no hope of an independent life for them.

But if that isn't the case, then as with being a parent, as with being a 1:1 support for a child with sn - your role is to make yourself surplus to requirements.

How about setting a date in the future OP? Or establish a time-frame that works for your DF and DH and you. Discuss with your DF that you understand that his recovery is being made easier with your support (which you're happy to give), but that at some point in the future you hope that he'll feel strong enough to start getting his life back together, and that you want to start helping him work towards that date.

I don't think it's unreasonable of you not to want his girlfriend staying with you for the weekend. I would feel uncomfortable with that. Come round for dinner maybe, but you don't need the whole sleeping-over/morning bathroom disruption that her spending the weekend will entail.

I can see where Astley is coming from. It does seem strange to me that in British culture (at this time), it is normal for families to be so fragmented. I never understood why my grandfather had to die in a home when it seemed a perfectly good idea for him to be living with my parents (they didn't see it like this). Seems to be too many lonely old folks in this country. I much prefer the idea of the elderly being part of the family and looked after by the younger generations. I don't come from a culture where this is the norm btw, I just wish it was.

Molehill, speaking as one whose grandmother was brought into the family home when she started becoming a danger to herself (from Alzheimer's), I can say that it is incredibly disruptive and hugely hard work. My Dad was worn to a bone with the worry of looking after his mum, and my Mum (who my grandmother hated) was in a horrible position.
All I can say is that it was an enormous relief to us all (Dad less so, in fairness) when she eventually died. :(

Absolutely agree Thumbwitch, in the those cases with serious ill health, Alzheimers, dementia etc. of course it'll never be easy or straightforward and often just too hard for other family to cope with. But I guess I mean just in general old age, where there are no other factors but being old and alone.

Apologies I didn't get the opportunity to reply last night, I got home late and went straight to bed. I'm feeling much more positive about this this morning, and that is thanks to you lot.

So much of what you've said rang true, and last night in bed I had a chat with DH, and he has reassured that he's not trying to push Dad out imminently, he just wants to know how long this is going to last (to plan finances more than anything) and he agrees that it would be much better to give him the opportunity to find a suitable place, rather than just find anywhere that will take him, if it is just the difference of a couple of extra weeks here. That makes me feel much better, as the panic is somewhat abated.

I've also asked my mum her opinion, and she's going to come round today and see what she can find out while she's here (she and my DF are still good friends.) so I'm much happier now that we're not dancing around the issue any more.

I was trying to work out actual timescales of when things happened, as I remembered that Dad had been in a houseshare previous to the flat he left in December, and I couldn't work out how that had all happened in 18months.... when I actually counted from June 2010, I realised I'd missed a year out, it's actually 2.5 years!! The first year was such a long battle that I can't believe I miscalculated by a year!! The point I'm trying to make is that it's really not so much about his recovery now, he was living on his own for a long time before he came here, he is capable, he is well, I'm just trying to work out what his motivation for staying here is. To be honest, I have enjoyed having him here, it makes a nice change from worrying about him all the time. I can only think that it's perhaps being short of money that has meant he has stayed, anyway, as I was pondering that this morning, a tax rebate came through the post! . It's only £300, but as it's unexpected, I'm going to see if DF would find it helpful in getting himself a nice new place.

Thanks again everyone, you've been fab!

OP - You are BU and not BU at the same time.

Your dad kept you fed and dry for at least 16 years, presumably for free. Is it such a big deal that you got him for a few months and he is eating your food and using your electricity?

Having my dad with me for two weeks would drive me crazy so I don't think that YABU for wanting him out after a few months. But I do think YABU for resenting the fact that he is eating your food etc etc.

OP - we cross posted. You came across as a very caring DD so i hope that you didn't take offense at my comments.