to ask: What's the point in school uniforms?

[allrightluv]

They serve no purpose and promote conformity. Differences in income are expressed in other ways - shoes, bags, mobiles, in fact, even more so. Kids are judged by which school they go to (state/private). Thanks to the uniform you can tell by a mile off. Kids wear brands anyway - after school, at the weekends and in the holidays, so it's not any cheaper to wear a uniform to school. Consumerism is the most pronounced in the UK of all European countries.

Other countries like Sweden have no uniforms at school and few uniforms in work life, too, and rate much higher in terms of kids' happiness etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal link, but uniforms are not helping...

"I would buy the uniform argument except I hate ours because it's of such bad quality and still expensive."

This only applies if you have a single supplier of the . Most modern state schools have a uniform which can be bought anywhere with perhaps just a sweatshirt from school. The same is true of girls and skirts; there is no reason why the girl's uniform should not include trousers.

I think the wearing of uniforms can make people more judgemental about the clothing of others. If they saw them in civvies every day, it wouldn't be an issue. Most uniforms look minging too -polyester ankle-swinging trews, anyone?

Two points. 1. Our school has branded socks. I kid you not.

and

1. Don't Sweden have the highest rate of suicide in the world?

I had to laugh yesterday when my now 25 yo DS and I were waiting at traffic lights. There was a stream of girls on their way home from our local all girls indie. They were all in immaculate uniforms with ankle length skirts and no visible makeup. 'They look great. I love to see a smart uniform'. He said. This from a lad who did everything possible to rebel against and customise his own uniform.

Two points. 1. Our school has branded socks. I kid you not.

a bit to far.

oh and another thing since when were kids individuals most children especially when they reach a certain age will wear the same clothes anyway so you would have groups all over the place looking the same so why not just wear the school uniform

LoopsInHoops:

uk 38

sweden 91

I'm quite anti-school uniform these days. I find it utterly pointless. I lived in France as a child and obviously we had no school uniform. I didn't notice any difference in behaviour/discipline and the 'less well off children' didn't get any stick and as eveyone wore there own clothes brands etc weren't really picked out as there was such a variety.
With regards to worries about secondhand clothing etc being picked on: my DSs wear hand-me downs, particularly DS2 as he goes into anything still wearable of DS1's. I'm not buying brand new uniform when there is one sitting in the cupboard.

OP

Are you going by Wikipedia? Because WHO disagrees with you. Sweden not top though, but still above UK.

honeytea - my observation on Swedish 'uniform' was based on a week long visit to Lund and Malmo a few years ago, in winter, where my first thought was 'well I like a black polo neck too but is that the only jumper available here?'

I saw, on men and women, all ages from students up:

Black polo neck, or red top, or cream top.
Jeans, chinos or black suit (optional black jacket with jeans).

Maybe there was a bit of blue and a few classic winter patterned jumpers.

There must be more cosmopolitan areas but it was a powerful impression of 'we all shopped from the same catalogue'.

I must say though, that my favourite baby clothes are from Polarn O Pyret, precisely because they're really colourful with interesting patterns and not all stupidly pink! Maybe children have more freedom (or desire) for expression there?

I love, love, love school uniforms. My DC have very strict uniforms (no horrid polyester trews or sweatshirt/cardy combos), and there is no discussion at all about what to wear.

Many of the children (my own included) wear second hand uniform, so it's not that expensive.

I think the headmistress whom Startail quotes is right about teenage rebellion!

I'm not convinced about hair bobbles having to be the exact same shade of green as their blazers, though.

lottie - I buy most of my daughter's clothes from Scandinavia (mainly Denmark and Sweden) precisely because it has no characters/lavish branding and is generally quite unisex (most of the everyday items). I love visiting these countries and seeing processions of brightly-coloured, enthusiastic children on excursions (they seem to be out and about quite a bit). If it were viable, I think I would move to Copenhagen in a heartbeat. Everyone seems so much more relaxed. Maybe it's their unwillingness to stifle creativity/freedom of expression from a young age .

I was bullied at high school as parents could choose whether or not their children wore the uniform and as I did and hardly anyone else did this was the result. Uniforms mean kids are less likely to be singled out for not having the latest 'fashion' or 'brand' and I wouldn't even consider sending my son to a school where they didn't wear uniform. Can't stand all this branded stuff anyway and let's face it, if all the kids are wearing the same branded clothes it's just like a mega-expensive version of a uniform anyway!

I think school uniform is used to express the Head Teacher's identity. The uniform has no sense of practicality and is all about image - which IMO is ridiculous for a primary school. Logo'd items are strongly encouraged - who can afford the logo'd stuff when George is a third of the price, so creating a level playing field is clearly not the aim. No trainers, no boots.....yep, cause Mary Janes are so much more practical in a wet cold country. Make it practical, make it affordable, stick to basic simple rules and don't lose a sense perspective - focus on education not the Head's idea of a corporate image.

Like it. I couldnt tell who had more money than others, i guess that was before mobile phones lol. Other than the odd people who always looked in need of a bath there was no difference in us. I liked it that way! With my own kids i think its good to have uniform saves arguments what to wear. I dont think income was ever expressed by shoes and bags either

For those who do have school uniforms, can girls choose to wear trousers as well as skirts?

I agree with the comments about how unpractical they can be, particularly skirts in the winter if no option for trousers.

In fact skirts anytime of the year are impractical if girls are running around the place, which they should be during breaks.

My daughter rarely wears a skirt to school. Almost always in trousers and a top. But in my day, no option for trousers, only skirts. Which was v sexist.

I know this will sound very old fashioned but I do think children need to learn how to dress appropriately for their future work environment and maybe this needs to start at school. Our local sixth form has 'smart casual' dress code but this is not enforced and most of the pupils look incredibly scruffy, most girls wearing the ridiculous denim shorts over black tights look (which is hardly showing their 'individuality') and the boys wearing their trousers half way down their backside. . Then they wonder why they can't get a Saturday job.

I used to interview trainees for the retail sector and yes, I did judge, if someone can't work out how to dress appropriately for an interview then they aren't going to get a second chance.

Very bad idea! Ive seen the staff at my ds nursery struggling with the current ratios at times, especially when kids need toilet so they're left with more children per nursery nurse. Cant see it working at all for smalled children they wont get the attention they need

cheese - I've never heard of a school that doesn't allow girls to wear trousers these days, my DS's schools actively encourages girls to wear trousers as they don't want the battle about skirt lengths.

Boys are not allowed to wear skirts though, do you remember the case last year when a boy insisted on his 'rights' to wear a skirt as he wasn't allowed shorts in the hot weather.

the only school in our area that doesn't allow skirts for girls is a private school they need to wear skirts infact im sure they are kilts, dd has a friend who goes and she moans in winter she is freezing

I'm all in favour of uniform for all the very good reasons already stated, although for me its primary purpose is to create an environment where children can learn that it is our actions and what we say that tell others about our personalities, not what we wear.

I loathe the accepted thought in the UK that you must literally wear your personality or be immediately condemned as hopelessly boring. They're clothes, not a creative statement.

Re the Swedish 'conformist' way of dressing. Most looks in the UK that would presumably not invite the same condemnation are deeply conformist - thery're just conforming to a narrow range of accepted ways of trying to look a supposedly edgy or free spirited. It always seems that a classic/timeless way of dressing invites scorn like no other. Wear exactly the same trendy stuff as 50 other people within a few metres fadius - fine. Wear the same fairly timeless stuff that could come from any time in the last few decades - terminally dull. Wuh?

my DD (state school) can wear trousers, culottes, skirts or tunics.

I'm for uniforms, saves money in long run, end of.

I'm all for school uniform. But I wish the feck my DD's school had sweatshirts and cardigans which didn't show felt tip marks.

Their sweatshirts and cardigans are bright yellow. All very nice. But felt tip marks do not come out, even with Vanish.

New sweatshirt = £11; New cardigan = £13.

I am all for school uniform. It is so much easier! Certainly the older children get the longer they pontificate over what to wear, and lets face it they don't like getting up earlier so it just means you would end up being late every day! I also know that it would cost me considerably more to provide suitable non uniform clothing! I like that it is easy to identify which school a child attends instantly and not just when they are misbehaving but, god forbid, our children go missing for any reason whilst under the care of the school it helps people identify easily what school they belong to. DS1 loves his uniform, it is part of the school experience for him. If clothing is the only outlet your children have for expressing their individuality then they can do so after school and at the weekends.

I am a secondary school teacher, and after much thought on this particular matter I think that uniform is largely a good thing. Yes, the teenagers will always try to compete with phones/trainers/hairstyles/bags but if there is uniform it is just one less thing for parents to think about in the mornings, and for young people to compare.

As a teacher in a fairly strict school, I spend a lot of time with my form group (year 10) ensuring that their shirts are tucked in, skirts are a reasonable length and jewellery and make-up are at a minimum. I also check this with each of my classes as they come in to my classroom. Students will complain that how they wear their uniform 'doesn't effect their learning'. They are wrong about this; if teachers insist on a uniform being worn and being worn correctly (the small things), students behaviour, attitude to learning and willingness to follow the rules is better across the board (the bigger things)

I am a supporter of uniform, although I think costs should be kept to a minimum where possible.