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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be so VERY ANGRY at what I've just witnessed? Comments invited from pheasant-shooting types.

26 replies

MirandaGoshawk · 30/01/2013 13:03

Was driving down a quiet country lane, came across some cars parked up and a group of shooters & spaniels milling about, obviously just finished shooting. They parted to let me through & I drove through at a snail's pace.

At the end of the group a dog was on one side of the road, he had stopped still & I prepared to go past him. Suddenly a bloke leapt in front of the car from the other side of the road, the dog cowered, the bloke grabbed him BY THE EAR and picked him up, carried him like this, in one hand, for about three paces & dropped him down. I yelled at him but he didn't hear me/took no notice.

AIBU to think that picking up a fully grown dog like this - or any dog, actually - is bang out of order?

OP posts:

mummymeister · 30/01/2013 13:09

of course it is unreasonable. a bully is a bully is a bully whether he is a hunting country type person or from the city. report it to rspca. i am not a pheasant shooter but am pro rabbiting and game shooting but i would have said something if i had seen it too.

hopenglory · 30/01/2013 13:10

Speaking as a pheasant shooting type, I've never seen anybody pick any dog up by their ear . The odd small terrier by the scruff of it's neck maybe, but never by the ear.

So YANBU to be angry about this.

Susan2kids · 30/01/2013 13:11

Phone the RSPCA?

photographerlady · 30/01/2013 13:12

YANBU and as mentioned by mummy call rspca. I've reported someone kicking their farm dog before while it was curled up on the ground.

tootsietoo · 30/01/2013 13:13

not nice. I have a lurcher and know a fair few shooting types, none of whom I have ever seen pick a dog up by its ears! why grab his ear not the scruff of his neck? Maybe he got the ear by mistake in his hurry?

degutastic · 30/01/2013 13:14

I wouldn't have thought it possible to pick a full grown dog up by the ear. I'd report it too.

frantic53 · 30/01/2013 13:16

I am friends with a few shooting type and know no-one who would do this. Gun dogs are, by and large, highly treasured possessions.

missrlr · 30/01/2013 13:17

Phone RSPCA or www.basc.org.uk/ local contact and complain - where when it happened. This type of behaviour gives any one involved in the sport a bad name. I would have stop the car, got out, collected the dog into my car and driven off to the vet's to get it checked out whilst telling the moron exactly what I think of him and his behaviour. But then I am an @rsy so and so. And yes I have actually done that when someone was mistreating a dog before now - they did try and say I had stolen the animal but that didn't work with the police when I reported what happened and the vet's report backed me up.

Teapot13 · 30/01/2013 13:20

This has nothing to do with shooting AFAIK. (I'm American and obviously we do it differently, but I have never heard of doing this.)

There is a practice of pinching a dog's ear when training them to retrieve, but the dog's weight stays on the ground. (This is called "forced training" and most dogs that are bred to retrieve don't need it I don't know how common it is but it does exist still nothing like what you described, though.)

Original poster

MirandaGoshawk · 30/01/2013 13:58

Thank you. I feel better now that even shooters are saying this is U behaviour. I would've doubted my eyes but I wasn't alone - DH was with me & he saw it too.

missir I wasn't going to get out and remonstrate with a group of blokes with guns. They would've laughed at me. This guy did it on purpose to be seen anyway - the dog was safe where it was. He was a prat to fling himself in front of the car. He wanted to make a point, not sure what or to whom. Dog was being disabedient I suppose, but still... I was expecting him ot smack it or something so was flabbergasted when he did that. DH was shocked too. He couldn't do anything as he is recovering from an op & is poorly atm.

I am amazed the dog wasn't injured. It didn't make a sound. Probably used to it

OP posts:

KellyElly · 30/01/2013 14:22

Thank you. I feel better now that even shooters are saying this is U behaviour. I'm glad you do, I'm sure the poor dog doesn't though! Next time maybe call the RSPCA?

Cat98 · 30/01/2013 14:25

ffs. This kind of thing makes me sick :(
yanbu

LRDtheFeministDragon · 30/01/2013 14:25

I can't even understand how you would do this - the dog's weight would make it's ear rip (sorry to be graphic, but ...).

Are you sure he hadn't hooked his finger through the collar and grabbed the ear at the same time? Not that I think it is good to pick up a dog like that either!

It sounds awful and very bizarre behaviour. My ex's family had several shoot dogs and they were always treated very consistently and carefully. And one of them was a dead loss, but still you'd never drag it around.

WorraLiberty · 30/01/2013 14:28

LRD I was going to say the same thing

I don't know if it's even possible...and the dog would be very much yelping and thrashing itself around.

LucyGoose · 30/01/2013 15:48

How awful. I would have gotten out of my car and had a word with that bully! I cannot stand to see animals hurt and would have to stop it.

Pandemoniaa · 30/01/2013 15:53

What an arsehole! I guess I fall into your category of "pheasant shooting folk" too and I don't know anyone who would mistreat a valuable shooting dog. I've seen terriers picked up by the scruff of their necks and occasionally eased out of holes by the tail but I've never seen a spaniel handled like this. YANBU.

Incidentally, I rather expect the arsehole does not come from "pheasant shooting stock" but is something of an arriviste who doesn't know how to behave but wants to throw his weight around.

DeepRedBetty · 30/01/2013 15:56

I personally don't do the shooting thing but a lot of relatives etc do, and their dogs are treated just the same as any other dog. Agree with Pandemoniaa.

maninawomansworld · 30/01/2013 15:59

I am a 'pheasant shooting type' - I shoot regularly and have a number of gun dogs myself.
I deplore any cruelty to animals full stop BUT without seeing the incident with my own eyes it is hard to pass judgement with any certainty.

If, as you say, the dog was picked up entirely by his ear then that's wrong full stop and I would probably have had a word too.

However, many people who know nothing about dogs think I am a little rough with my dogs sometimes when I pick one up by the scruff of the neck (sometimes assisted with the other hand under the belly or grabbing the loose skin on the rump - so not all the weight is on the neck), but that's exactly what this skin is for!

In my experience most shooting people treat their dogs very well and they are deeply loved. Build a relationship with a dog, get the training and discipline right (something many family pet dog owners could learn from) and the dog will repay you a thousand fold both in terms of the work he or she does for you and the bond you share. Unfortunately , just as you get bad pet owners there will be those among the shooting community whose care of their animals falls short of the mark and they deserve severe punishment.

Original poster

MirandaGoshawk · 30/01/2013 20:30

I was talking to DH about it just now & he said "Maybe he was going for the scruff of the neck..."

It sounds so incredible that I can hardly believe it myself. It happened just in front of the car so we had a good view. It was a young dog, not a huge thick-set one, but not a puppy either. Maybe 18 months or so or 2 yrs old.

I have an image in my mind of the guy with his left arm out to keep his balance as he heaved it up. So wasn't using two hands. I certainly saw him take a good handful of ear with his right hand. BUT DH is now not sure, now after 7 hours, that maybe we didn't see what we thought we saw.

I don't know, is the truth. I was certainly crying with anger at the time. If he'd picked it up under the belly etc I wouldn't be.

OP posts:

Original poster

MirandaGoshawk · 31/01/2013 10:54

OK, have had a good think about this. I am certain of what I saw. I'm going to email the landowner and contact the RSPCA today, and see if there is a local shooting club* I can complain to as well. Hopefully this will trickle down to the individual concerned & he will be told by people he respects that this is out of order.

These weren't posh just-down-from-London types - more like local farmers here in East Devon, people with weather-beaten faces. All the cars (that I noticed) were beaten-up landrover types & the men were wearing dark green.

Thanks for your comments.

OP posts:

maninawomansworld · 01/02/2013 08:38

I'd be surprised if there is a local 'club' and from what you say it doesn't sound like a big estate shoot. It's probably an informal syndicate, essentially group of mates who have got together and secured land to shoot on whether they own it between them, rent it or just have permission off the farmer to shoot there.
If you really want to track them down then find out who the farmer is and ask him. When you do this be really friendly and reasonable as they are most likely his mates and if you get his back up you'll probably be dismissed as a whinging townie who doesn't understand the countryside and told to get lost.
I would say something along the lines of you were concerned that a dog looked like it was treated a bit roughly and were concerned rather than going in all confrontational shouting the odds about the RSPCA and cruelty etc..

Farmers and countryfolk have a bit of a reputation of being a bit of a closed shop and short with those deemed outsiders and to an extent it does have some elements of truth but most of us are nice really. To be honest many of the other memebers would probably have shared your concern and may not heve felt able to broach the subject so you bringing it up might enable them to say 'well, I thought you were a bit rough with him too mate but I didn't want to cause trouble by saying anything'

valiumredhead · 01/02/2013 08:59

If you picked a dog up by his ear, the ear would rip surely? Or the dog would turn his head and bite?

Paiviaso · 01/02/2013 09:30

I'm also a bit confused on how a dog could be carried by his ear. As above, wondering if it was actually ear getting caught when he was grabbing the scruff? Especially as the dog made no complaint?

Bottleoffish · 01/02/2013 10:13

Hmm... my experience is there are 'pheasant shooting types' and there are 'pheasant shooting types'.

DH shoots and there are people who go who have very well trained dogs, then there are people who go with poorly trained dogs who end up with shock collars on because they aren't properly trained and then end up being whacked and put back in the car. DH is now very selective about which shoots he attends due to this.

Original poster

MirandaGoshawk · 01/02/2013 19:18

Manaina What makes you think I would go in shouting the odds? You make an awful lot of presumptions in your post. I have some good friends who are farmers/farming background. My DH and DS both work closely with farmers & DS's boss has a spaniel & goes shooting with it. But I wanted to discuss this with people I don't know, & I trust MN for intelligent opinion. Do please try not to read stuff into people's posts that isn't there.

Anyway, have talked to DH again about this. He showed me on our dog (without lifting!) how the guy could've grabbed the scruff as well as the ear. He definitely grabbed the ear, close to the head. Definitely. But could've got the scruff as well. As you say, the ear would most likely rip.

OP posts:

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