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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think someone must be accountable for this?

27 replies

stripeyjimjams · 28/01/2013 15:20

Long story short, we bought a flat in August, and problems are starting to show.

We chose to buy a newish build (renovated in the 90s), as we'd just come from renting a series of tenement flats, which always had problems with draught, leaks etc, and wanted to be more confident of living somewhere which wouldn't be full of Derek Acorah-style cold spots come the winter.

We viewed this flat twice before buying, and were assured that all plumbing, glazing etc were done to a high spec. It's been lovely and warm, very cosy over winter and we've had no issues until now.

We noticed that water appeared to be leaking from our bathroom into the communal hallway below in December. We did our best to fill any gaps in sealant and called a plumber in in January. He found out that, behind the wall tiles, a pipe had been left uncapped by the renovators and, since the renovation, bath, shower and toilet water - hence, I'm sorry, faeces - had been flowing into the space under the bath unfettered. He capped the pipe, and the leaking stopped, but since the bath panel was removed, we've still got lots of little flies in the bathroom.

Today, the tilers came out to pull up the tiles, which had come loose with the damp caused by the leak. They're going to lay new tiles and find out that the floor underneath has been constructed from shutter-ply (the stuff they patch up broken windows with, NOT for floors) and huge gaps have been left between the bits of shutter-ply.

So, the floors need pulling up wholesale and re-laying, plus the under-bath area needs sanitised (we're going through a lot of fly spray). The flat was originally part of a group of corporate lets, for business clients staying in the city, and the company who owned them went bust. So we can't complain to them. The estate agents say it's not their fault, BUT I can't help but think a surveyor, who they should have got to look at the flat before selling, would have spotted problems like this.

We were first time buyers, not a clue about surveyors or what to look for from viewing a flat to buy (aside from obvious things). My DH feels so depressed, like he's let us down (which he hasn't at all). I hate seeing him like this. I'm angry that nobody highlighted these massive problems before the flat went on the market. DH thinks we don't have a leg to stand on in terms of complaints / compensation. Could any legal-minded MNers advise? We absolutely saved our asses off to buy a place. I lived with my mum and dad for years so I could put money by. I'm furious that there's been sewage pumping into our living space, and glad, at least, that we've had no health issues as a result.
(Sorry this is so long Blush )

OP posts:
1gorgeousson · 28/01/2013 15:27

Did you get a survey done? If you did then you need to take this up with the survey company. Or speak to your conveyancing solicitor they might help you complain. Does insurance cover it? Estate agents don't check a property it is why they recommend a thorough survey before contract is exchanged.

jumpingjackhash · 28/01/2013 15:29

Sorry you're having to deal with all this. It's crap when things go wrong soon after you've bought somewhere but often it's sod's law.

What kind of survey did you have? There may be some solution or support within there although I'm sure they wouldn't have been able to see problems like that which were behind walls or floors.

I'm no property law expert (maybe post this in property or legal issues) but I can't see how it's the fault of the estate agent, they're employed by a vendor to sell a property, not by the buyer to ensure what they're buying is all in top notch order. The onus is on the buyer to do surveys etc (as far as is possible).

You may just need to chalk this down to crappy experience. Welcome to the world of property ownership.

MaxPepsi · 28/01/2013 15:29

I didn't think you could get a mortgage without a survey?

Especially for first time buyers?

I am prepared to be told that is bollocks however

jumpingjackhash · 28/01/2013 15:32

There are different levels of survey though MaxPepsi, some are little more than a glance to confirm the existence and approximate value of a property, others are more indepth and will have the surveyor looking into all the nooks and crannies of a place. Depends how much you want to spend and how detailed a picture you want of the place you're going to buy.

fingersandthumbs · 28/01/2013 15:35

Hi Stripeyjimjams,

I'm going to assume that your flat is in England. As 1gorgeousson has correctly written it is usual for the purchasers to commission and pay for a structural report on the property that they are buying. This is different to a report commissioned by your bank or building society if you take out a morthgage whose report would be used to "value" the property and advise if any work needs doing on the property before they will loan money against it.
A structural survey is often used by the purchasers to negotiate on the price of the property if it highlights and work that will need doing on the porperty relatively soon.
It is often difficult for a surveyor to gain access to things such as under floors to inspect them, particularly if they have tiles on them. You mention having tiles removed/replaced. From what you have written, it may have been impossible for a surveyor to assess/inspect the floor under the tiles without damaging and lifting the tiles.
Check the survey that you commissioned prior to purchase. If you didn't commission a survey then as the previous poster has suggested it may well be worth a call to your household insurers to see if you are covered for the damage caused by the uncapped pipe.

stripeyjimjams · 28/01/2013 15:40

Thank you for the advice, everyone - I will check with DH when I get home to find out exactly what kind of surveying was done. I was, to my shame, a bit of a useless ticket when we bought, letting DH deal with all the paperwork (please don't judge, I was having a crazy time at work / mini-nervous breakdown).

Fingers we're actually in Scotland, but thank you for your wise words.

OP posts:
meddie · 28/01/2013 16:39

Do you know whether you would be covered for the damage caused by the leak under your buildings insurance?

maddening · 28/01/2013 18:43

You probably won't be able to complain - it is usually buyer beware.

You may be able to claim on your insurance but do that sooner than later as a claims assessor would want to investigate the cause of the leak etc so if you've completed the work that would be hard.

dancemom · 28/01/2013 18:55

No advice but i guessed you were in Scotland from the use of the word tenement - am i wrong in assuming this is a Scottish word??

MrsBW · 28/01/2013 19:01

Can only speak for England... But unless you'd had a structural survey (the highest type) done you won't be able to complain... Homebuyers surveys (the middle type) only check what can be seen on the surface, nothing behind tiles or under floors. This is normally sufficient if the house isn't very old and you don't intend to renovate... and is what most people who have surveys done go for.

You have to have a valuation survey (lowest type) in order to get a mortgage... This just reassures the bank that the house is worth the mortgage amount, nothing more.

Not sure if the law differs in Scotland... It may well do.

Best bet is home insurance. Sorry to hear you're going through this.

Yfronts · 28/01/2013 19:02

I know in England the buyer does the survey

Chandon · 28/01/2013 19:03

Do you have home insurance ? Ours covered this kind of problem.

WilsonFrickett · 28/01/2013 19:06

Call your insurers, you are probably covered for damage due to poor workmanship. But do it soon as they will definitely want to send someone out to look at the damage. Take photos of everything as well.

As for the survey, they don't lift floor boards or look under things - you probably won't even have commissioned one to be honest as in Scotland we use home reports which are commissioned by the seller and are fairly basic.

Try not to be down about it, it's a learning curve. Could have happened to anyone. In fact, our toilet has been similarly shoddily fitted (we've just had a leak) but that's just part of owning your own home. Unfortunately.

nefertarii · 28/01/2013 19:13

Are you saying this pipe has been left upcapped since the 90s and only just started coming through.

I am struggling to understand how sewage can leak for 10-15 years and only just now shows.

Are you confident on the information you have been given about why this problem has occurred?

OooohShiny · 28/01/2013 19:13

If you're in Scotland then there's no need for the buyer to have a survey done as we're still doing the home report thingy...however it only has a mortgage valuation survey and not a full structural survey so the surveyor would not have seen any of these problems. He may have picked up damp in the bathroom or communal areas but it would have been marked on the survey under those areas.

Assuming you didn't carry out an additional structural survey (which probably wouldn't have picked this issue up) then I don't really see that you have anyone to complain to.

Like Wilson mentioned above it is, unfortunately, part and parcel of owning your own home.

MrsBW · 28/01/2013 19:13

^ I knew Scotland would be different!

HintofBream · 28/01/2013 19:13

We had a similar sort of probem a few years ago; badly connected pipe in loo, horrible smells, but no loose sewage thank heaven and the insurers paid for all the work to rectify it. Keeping fingers crossed that you do have insurance.

dancemom · 28/01/2013 19:16

No advice but i guessed you were in Scotland from the use of the word tenement - am i wrong in assuming this is a Scottish word??

golemmings · 28/01/2013 19:17

Would proper floors come under building regs? If so the local authority should have signed them off. It might be worth chatting to them to see if they can help at all.

If its any consolation you're not the only people this kind of thing has happenned to... We've just extended out house and found all the electrical were on one overloaded - the electricians found the cables in the wall by finding the hot spots and we leaned that a wall had been taken out and rather than putting in an rsj, some muppet had put in a concrete lintel that was deflecting by an inch and a half.

I hope you get it all sorted.

WilsonFrickett · 28/01/2013 19:24

Yep dancemom tenement flats are beautiful old blocks of flats grouped round communal stairs. Usually very spacious with lovely high ceilings, communal back gardens (drying greens), huge windows, victorian or Georgian architecture. Stunning. And always - always - freezing. No insulation, cost a million pounds to heat, you often aren't allowed to double glaze.

dancemom · 28/01/2013 19:52

Yes WF, im Scottish myself and have lived in several tenements myself - however im happier in my new build just to get away from the draughty windows and high ceilings - beautiful though they are!

GiveMeSomeSpace · 28/01/2013 20:15

I'm afraid you'll just have to put it down to experience. I doubt very much you'll have recourse with anyone in this case. Hope it's not to bad to sort out.

WilsonFrickett · 28/01/2013 20:53

Oops sorry, I thought you were asking what they were Blush

holidaysarenice · 28/01/2013 21:08

If you are in scotland, does ur building have a factor? That is the place to start. They will be whoever maintains ur hallways etc.

We had a not unsimilar problem, the leak the insurers fixed. The rest the factors.

QueenStromba · 28/01/2013 21:40

Dublin used to have tenements too but they were more your family of ten living in one room sort of thing that what WF described.