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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to feel really violated by this?

56 replies

DrawMeADream · 26/01/2013 20:50

I managed - very, VERY unintentionally - to attract the attention of a group of four men on the bus today. And I use the term 'men' very loosely. They spent about ten minutes loudly discussing me - 'that fit blond bird' - so that the whole bus could hear, and then proceeded to attempt to find out my name and get my phone number, repeatedly. When that didn't work, one of them sat in the seat behind me and said I have gorgeous hair, then played with it. When that got a stronger reaction from me (I pulled away and said 'you've GOT to be kidding'), he put his hand between the back of the seat and the bottom, and touched my bum. When I then moved seats, they started laughing and joking that now they'd lost their crack at me. They then continued to discuss me until they reached their stop.

I'm really, really not a confrontational person at all - I'm the type of person who cries and stutters when I get angry, and I didn't want to feel any more humiliated than I already was, so I didn't really call them on their behaviour, although I did make it clear that their attention wasn't wanted - and they ended up saying 'she's so cute, pity she's rude.' Part of me feels embarassed for being bothered by it - surely someone else on the bus would have said something if it really sounded that bad? - and part of me is ashamed for not standing up for myself. I was once raped by a new boyfriend, and while I feel more or less like I've put it behind me, moments like this really dredge up a lot of feelings and make it very difficult for me to keep a clear head in the moment and judge what I should do.

I don't know how to deal with situations like this, and I don't want to dread every bus journey because of this - AIBU to feel really violated, ashamed and powerless, or am I overreacting?

OP posts:

SolidSnake · 26/01/2013 21:52

uh, pretty sure the OP was a victim of sexual assault and harassment flowery

funnypeculiar · 26/01/2013 21:55

As everyone else has said - of course you weren't over-reacting. On threads like this in the past, people have often said what made the situation doubly awful, was that other people didn't support them. Encountering a bunch of arses is one thing. Discovering that (presumably) decent people don't stand up for you is very unsettling.

If it makes you feel better, I AM quite a confrontational person in general, and on a very similar occasion (in a train, not a bus), reacted exactly the same way - subtly blamed myself, thought that as everyone else hadn't reacted, maybe I was over-reacting, and just felt very intimidated and weirdly ashamed. In retrospect, I was shocked I didn't call them on it, but at the time, it just didn't feel possible.
Like snazzy said, what it did for me was make me a rehearse a 'what would I do next time" scenario - something that I was comfortable I could do. What do you think would work for you, if there was ever a next time?

Snazzynewyear · 26/01/2013 21:56

OP is absolutely valid in her feelings of being violated. Absolutely.

StickEmWithThePointyEnd · 26/01/2013 21:57

She was inappropriately touched without her consent. That makes sexual assault.

Those men did this deliberately to make her uncomfortable because they could. Because people will walk around telling the poor women they harrass that they are "making too much of a situation". Ffs.

flippinada · 26/01/2013 21:58

YANBU and you're not over-reacting. Please don't blame yourself for not reacting in the 'right' way.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 26/01/2013 22:03

The reaction of the other people on the bus is meaningless. I think numerous studies have shown that crowds of people won't react to things like that. In fact, the more people, the less likely they are to react. That's because they're all looking to one another to see what they should do. Nobody does anything and they sit still. Really - studies have been set up where someone feigns distress and most people don't do anything.

And, they may have been scared to get involved. It sucks, but they may have been.

I'm sorry this happened to you. What you experienced is actually very common. I read a blog about it about a week ago, and the comments are heart-breaking. Such things used to happen to me and I think they happen to most young women.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/laura-bates/everyday-sexual-assault_b_1847497.html

beamagazine.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/sexual-assault-and-me-and-so-many-others/

DoctorAnge · 26/01/2013 22:08

That is awful and I would have felt really shaken.

Catchingmockingbirds · 26/01/2013 22:08

I think that when everybody on the bus ignored it and didn't say anything, it wasn't that they were approving of what the men were doing or didn't see anything wrong with it, but they were maybe too scared to do anything incase the group turned on them next.

Catchingmockingbirds · 26/01/2013 22:10

katy this is called the Bystander Effect, you should read about Kitty Genovese and the study by Darley and Latane.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 26/01/2013 22:13

Catchingmockingbirds Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking about.

It's just a weird herd instinct thing in people. I only talked about it because it seems the OP wondered if the reaction of other people meant that she was crazy for being upset and I wanted to assure her that that was not the case.

piprabbit · 26/01/2013 22:15

I think you were sexually assaulted. The police will listen to what you say and they will contact the bus company about CCTV.

I was recently assaulted and have been hugely impressed with how far the police were prepared and able to pursue their inquiries. It really helped to feel that I was being taken seriously.

floweryblue · 26/01/2013 22:16

I agree that the OP feels that she has been violated and is therefore angry. That is why I suggested she report the incident to the police and the bus company.

SpectresandSpooks · 26/01/2013 22:16

Bystander effect compounded by news articles of being being stabbed fir standing up for themselves or others. Your DH sounds fab OP

DizzyZebra · 26/01/2013 22:17

YANBU.
I was working and went to a bar after to kill time while i waited for my train and i had 4 men, one after the other, literally jump on me, trying to shove their tongues in my mouth, draping themselves all over me, grabbing at me. I felt disgusting and dirty TBH.

I have been sexually assaulted by a random man in the street - He grabbed me and put his fingers inside me. But the men in the bar left me feeling worse, I think because there were people around and no one did anything, It made me feel like they weren't doing anything wrong, whereas the man in the street, my friend saw him (male friend) and went mad at him so it kind of felt like yeah, you know you're in the wrong.

Don't know if that makes sense.

Original poster

DrawMeADream · 26/01/2013 22:21

flowery, yes I used to use the bus daily until I had DD. Now its only the occasional Saturday. I'd become accustomed to incidences similar to this, but without the touching - that was what threw me. I thought about reporting it to the bus driver, but considering the volume they were using, there is absolutely no chance that he wasn't aware of it already.

As for what I'd do in future, I don't know - that's what's disturbing me. The bus mostly goes through deserted lanes, and there is one every hour, so getting off isn't an option. And you obviously can't count on the other passengers to help. So... I don't know.

OP posts:

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter · 26/01/2013 22:22

I think

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter · 26/01/2013 22:24

I think you reacted the right way. They clearly wanted a rise and I think things would have got worse if you'd argued it.
Try not to over think your reaction xxxx

Booyhoo · 26/01/2013 22:30

YANBU at all.

i would report this to the plice. assholes get away with this shit way too much.

i wouldn't have been able to hold my cool in your shoes and would have flipped out completely, screeching at them and turned myself into a right spectacle. i know i would because that's how i've reacted when similar happened to me in a club. shockingly i was told (by 'friends' ) that i over reacted to having a stranger's hand put up my dress!

kickassangel · 26/01/2013 22:35

I think in future you could move right to the front by the driver, even go and speak to him or her and tell her/him you are being harassed and that you need some support. That should be a fairly low key way to keep creeps at bay without having to face a big confrontation. You should be able to ride the bus without being worried

funnypeculiar · 26/01/2013 22:36

OK, so some options for you ito what you could do which wouldn't involve calling them directly if you don't think you could face it - I'm sure others can think of some more

Ignore and 'remove yourself'. You moved - great idea. Takes you out of the firing line. Could you also make a phone call/get your headphones out? Then you are 'out' of their space and whatever they say can't hurt you. And once they realise you aren't listening, they may well loose interest.

Enlist help: Could you single out one person to help you? This could be the driver (he may well ignore if he can get away with it, but might be different if you appeal directly to him, even just asking if you can sit near him and/or asking if the incident would be videoed) or it could be a 'safe'/engaged looking passenger. Someone who catches your eye, or just looks like they'd help. Bystander effect is lessened when people feel appealed to directly - as others have said, the more people there are, the easier it is for all of them to keep out. You could just ask to sit next to them as you are feeling uncomfortable, they'll understand, and hopefully help.

And this is what I'd love to do... Get your phone out, look like you're making a call. Proceed to 'report' an incident of sexual harrassment on the xx bus, describe the woman (you) as if you're an onlooker. Make a lot of "yes, that's right. That's brilliant, I'll be looking out for you" type noises. Don't think I'd ever have the nerve though!

When it's been verbal only, what's your approach?

MurderOfGoths · 26/01/2013 22:39

You are not overreacting at all :( I hate that no one stepped in to help you, wish I was surprised though

Original poster

DrawMeADream · 26/01/2013 22:41

DizzyZebra, really sorry to hear about those experiences, and yes, I know exactly what you mean - the way others react makes a big difference afterwards

I doubt that anything can be done - I have no idea who they were, and no proof that the touching happened. I do want to report it though - mainly just to feel that I've done something about it and contributed to statistics to help show that these things are a problem, iyswim. Police or bus company or both?

OP posts:

KatyTheCleaningLady · 26/01/2013 22:45

I was once chased down a street in San Francisco by a homeless guy yelling "DON'T YOU RUN FROM ME! I HAVEN'T HAD SEX IN 18 YEARS!" He chased me into a bar and chased me around and around the pool table. Nobody helped me. They pretended they didn't see me at all. It was like the Twilight Zone.

To be fair, when I was actually running down the street, I was laughing because it seemed kind of funny (I have an absurd sense of humour). But, it ceased to be funny when the whole bar pretended I wasn't there.

Original poster

DrawMeADream · 26/01/2013 22:48

funnypeculiar, my approach when it has only been verbal has been, as you suggest, 'removing myself' with headphones or phone, which has previously worked. I did the same in this case, but they continued on regardless. I guess, as you say, the best thing to do would be to move up near the driver and essentiallyforce him to stop ignoring the situation.

Thank you for all threplies s - gives me a bit more faith that my perspective isn't completely skewed...

OP posts:

gwenniebee · 26/01/2013 22:49

YANBU at all. I would report it to both. I was raped too by a so-called boyfriend, and I absolutely understand your situation and why it is so upsetting, but I don't think that you have over-reacted to these events because of your history. Glad that your dh takes it seriously :)

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