To think this is a cruel policy, and not an actual 'tax'?

[katykuns]

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/25/spare-bedroom-tax-contradiction-impossibility?CMP=NECNETTXT766

I just think its unrealistic, and completely ignores reality that it is not just easy to drop everything and move. It is also very unfair to the disabled.

Why can they not target the damn landlords charging extortionate rents?

It is not directly affecting me, but I do claim housing benefit and I work, and life is hard. I just feel like it makes it impossible to live with a 14-25% cut of your benefit.

Its not a tax, its a benefit cut. Say it as it is ... just another attempt to make people struggling to get by struggle even more!

'The difference is that people who have recently found themselves unemployed have some chance of finding another job. Pensioners have no chance.'

There's no law that says people can't work past a certain age. Plenty of people do to top up their pensions.

The rules don't apply to anyone over 61, as I recall.

Yes they do, but unless you make pensioners exempt, then you are also including the ones who really can't work.

People who have recently found themselves unemployed find they have to scrape together enough money out of £71 a week JSA to cover this benefit reduction.
Pensioners OTOH are exempt, but if they were treated the same as everyone else would have to scrape together enough money out of £142.70 a week basic state pension plus top ups of pension guarantee credit to cover this benefit reduction.
If unemployed people are deemed to be able to afford this, why not pensioners?

FWIW, I think the whole situation is ludicrous, and don't agree anyone should have to pay, but if people are going to pay, then we should all be in it together...including the MP's and the royal family.

Maybe a compromise would be to raise the age to 65 or even 67/68 and to make families living with disability or foster carers exempt.

That way older people who are affected by age related illness would be protected, and so would the people who are currently being unfairly hit.

CloudsAndTrees There are already people who really can't work that are included in this benefit reduction. Disabled people?

Bet the queen isn't paying bedroom tax on her 200+ rooms!

Bet she's not claiming housing benefit either!

People who have recently found themselves unemployed with children will not be living only on JSA. Single people who are recently unemployed and who are only living on JSA will be able to downsize much marie easily.

Yes Littlemisssarcastic, as I have already alluded to.

The queen has no need to claim housing benefit, but the tax payer still supports her. I believe 15.1 million a year is spent on maintaining royal palaces. It's just not called housing benefit.

Clouds "Single people who are recently unemployed and who are only living on JSA will be able to downsize much marie easily"

How do you come to that conclusion?

I wonder how much of that 15.1 million, assuming that is correct, comes from the public and tourists being able to visit the palaces. It ain't cheap to do the tour of Buckingham palace, that's for sure!

Because they have the option of lodging, renting a room and house shares.

Without meaning to throw the thread off at a complete tangent, the crown estate contributes about £200 million (approx I think) to the Treasury and in return they get the civil list which is a damn site less.

On the subject of bedroom tax, I think it's fair. How can we reasonably say it's OK for us to pay a family to have a house larger than they need when we have thousands of families without suitable accommodation?

Nice guy it very much depends on the criteria of need, the rules do not take into account actual need only perceived need.

They are different things.

This is what they want.

They want cries of ' how unfair on me...old people should be made to move

Read what Edam said about Thatcher - actively selling off and preventing councils from re-building social housing.

turn against each other - don't for a second think bigger, larger, greater. For whilst you are gouging out each others eyes, your blindness prevents you from seeing a bigger picture.

bedroom tax is imminent, there is no benefit, there has been little in the way of telling people about it. and it is the first of many many reforms to welfare.

The welfare, they want you to hate, because now, we are all supposed to hate 'skivers' and adore 'strivers'

in a new world order created by the ultra rich, to serve...the ultra rich. Labour, Lib Dem and Tory - have all failed this country and it's ordinary people.

they are dismantling the welfare state, they are dismantling the NHS, and who benefits.

who

benefits?

am i supposed to really believe, that it isn't the rich friends of politicians who forge social policy to line their own pockets and those of their friends?

from bankers and loan givers, to A4E style training providers, to Workfare placements providing FREE labour.

and we are all swallowing this bullshit, in the name of how this country is going to die under the weight of money owed if we don't.

The very very rich fucked this up, and they are LAUGHING, they are FUCKING LAUGHING AT YOU, the stupid people, dog fighting for the scraps.

Good idea Clouds.

I'm sure the people who have partners whose disability means that they sleep in separate rooms at night, yet are not exempt from this benefit reduction because they are actually a couple will have no problem renting a room, or taking in a lodger, or perhaps they could house share. What a perfectly reasonable idea.

Am I the only person who thinks the people affected by this have committed only one crime AFA govt is concerned it is a crime and that is to be poor.

If I was living alone in a social housing 5 bedroomed property, but paid all of my rent without needing any help with housing benefit, nothing would change for me.

Social housing rent is one of the most affordable rents in the country at the moment. There are going to be many many underoccupied properties which are not in receipt of housing benefit, and therefore nothing changes for them.

It is a benefit cut for the poorest in society.

I'm sure the new rules won't be perfect. With any change you will always find winners and losers. It sometimes feels like people think the current rules are perfect and the government are changing them for the sake of it.

But hopefully the new rules will help struggling families get a place sooner and those who have spare rooms are encouraged to downsize.

Individually I'm sure there will be many stories of woe. I'm just waiting for all the 'examples' which will soon crop up when Universal Credit is introduced where someone loses out and therefore try to claim the entire system is therefore unfair.

The brutal truth is that government's must make policies which benefit the majority since there is no perfect answer to anything in life. And right now it seems thankfully the balance has swung more towards those who are in need of the extra bedroom and also the taxpayer.

Custardo I compleatly agree with everything you just said apart from the info about it.

Its been in the media lots and lots letters hav been sent to tenants and the info is available online.

Good picture on Facebook about this

Most people this will affect will end up paying the shortfall, because either there are no properties they can downsize to, or they can't afford to move.

1 bed properties are very scarce where I live. 2 bed properties are much more common.

There will be many many people who will need to move to a 1 bedroomed property to avoid having their HB cut, yet those properties are just not there.

This policy would be much fairer if it was just a case of persuading people to move. I don't think people are against moving, they just cannot afford to move or more commonly, they cannot find a suitable property to move to.

Even the housing depts admit it won't free up many houses at all due to a huge lack of 2 bed property's.

If you can asses HB on a persons personal financial/ family size/ work suituation as they do now then you can also asses it on there actual need.

If you can exempt age groups then you an exempt on other grounds.