Doing a PhD with young children - feeling really guilty!!

[FeelingGuilty2013]

I am trying to decide if I am crazy or not.
I have a gorgeous toddler and am 5 months pregnant with second child. I am a CEO of a small/ medium business currently and work 4 days a week. Husband is a farmer and due to some rather unpleasent family changes recently his role has basically become more of a part time role with us having a smaller amount of land etc and a smaller income, I therefore had to go to full time from 3 days a week to cover this.
I have wanted to do a PhD for a long time. I am 30 and a CEO in my sector, I don't feel there is a lot of room for me to move currently or develop further than this and I really want to move into academia. Both my husband and I feel that with the recent and very unexpected family changes which have occurred and his time for a while being more flexible it is the ideal opportunity for me to do this. Financially I have to work full time (I do this over 4 days and make the 5th day up in the evenings once my son is in bed - this will continue). I will have to continue this after maternity leave to keep us paying bills. I am considered likely to recieve funding for the PhD (part time) which will mean our income will remain pretty much stay the same (given tax free of the grant) and long term my earning potential will be much better - not that this is my main motivator, but providing security for our family is important. My husband will continue to part-time farm and be part-time stay at home dad with the children, and we will use part time childcare as we do now, with support from grandparents.
The family circumstances with farming have very much thrown us into disarray future wise as we thought we had a plan which now doesn't exist. I feel my doing this PhD I am helping to secure our family longterm, but I also feel guilty as this is somethng I want and am really passionate about. I am worried about juggling this with young children and not being the mother I want to be. My husband is the most wonderful, hands on father but I feel worried I am putting 'me' first, which I don't feel is right with young children, however as my husband says whatever option I choose I will be working 5 days a week (flexible as said above) so why not have 2 of those days doing a PhD where the outcomes will be so much more beneficial?
Not even sure if this makes sense! But I am feeling very guilty for doing something I want to do which will take me away from my children...
To avoid drip feeding, there is no way I can be a SAHM - we simply cannot afford it and my income is pretty much our one stable source, certainly for the next few years!
Is this just working mothers guilt? I feel I am taking advantage of the change in circumstances for DH which haven't been nice for him, though he completely supports and encourages me to do this. I know that regardless I have to work but feeling very guilty about it being doing I want to do rather than just have too?!
Hope this makes sense!

I think you and DH make a great team and together you are contributing to a stable family life now and working towards a secure (as much as it can be these days) future. How rare that what you happen to enjoy is also the practical, sensible way forward. I might be missing something but why not grab this opportunity with both hands?

Sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job, in the short term and long term. Your children have you, your husband, grandparents and childcare looking after them, with the loving support of their parents. You have no need to feel guilty whatsoever (though I think being a parent and maybe a mum moreso, guilt comes as part of the package!).

You do whatever makes you and your husband happy. That will mean a happy family life.

And agree totally - if you have found something you love doing, that will also be a good move long term, grab it with both hands!!

PS your husband sounds incredibly supportive and lovely :)

Many families have one parent who works very hard and long hours, including evenings and weekends. For most families that parent is the father, but if you are the main wage earner for your family I don't think you should feel that just because you're the woman/mother you shouldn't be doing everything you can to support your family and further your career to bring in more money. My DH worked FT for two years while doing a Masters course that took up every other weekend and one or two nights each week. It was hard for all of us, but we got through it (I realise a PhD is rather longer than two years, but perhaps less intensive?). Anyway, I think you should do what you feel you need to do. You and your DH are a supportive team and if you're the main breadwinner, then you should be accorded the time and space in which to earn the best bread you can. It's non-traditional, certainly, and your mothering instincts won't make it easier for you, but that shouldn't necessarily hold you back.

It sounds like a good idea, although I'd be wary of doing a PhD part time. I think it'd be quite hard to know how much you should be getting done part time as a postgrad, where it's not like you have specified modules to complete. Also it might depend which subject but I thought part time funding was a lot harder to get? Funding is a lot harder to get now than it was a few years ago, although you won't know till you apply!

I don't have children yet BUT I think doing a PhD probably fits in better with having children than a job does, since it's much more flexible. So if it doesn't affect you financially then I don't see the problem, even if it does affect you financially it could still be a good thing. Have you thought about how you expect it to help you career/future earnings? Because again, depending on subject, it might not help, although it shouldn't hurt! Fwiw PhD funding is a very secure type of income (once you get it), much more so than a job (even if mortgage companies don't agree grr!). You will probably also be able to earn money teaching as well.

Don't underestimate how great it is that your husband is so supportive either, that can make a huge difference :-) Good luck!

P.S. I don't think I'd start the PhD this year, since you'll have a newborn in four months' time and that, together with your FT job and your other child will be more than enough on your plate. But next Sept - yes - if it's what you want.

Thanks all, I think juneau has hit the nail on the head that this is about mothering instincts versus non-traditional, which has come as a sudden change to our family life in the last few months due to the family changes. DH and I seem to be swapping roles more and me doing this almost 'formalises' that.

I do think I am extremely lucky in my DH though, he is nothing but encouraging and supportive, recognising that if I do get the funding (agree maths it definately isn'ty easy - I am about 80% of the way through the process now - just interview to go!) that it will have impact on all of us.

Just feels odd that we have had this lifestyle change and then I get to benefit from it in one way of doing something which I've wanted to do for a long time, though I feel I lose a bit as well with not being with children as much, but DH is such a good father I know my DS and unborn DC will still benefit!

all the advice I receive about doing a part-time PhD seems to centre around discipline and focus, allocating set time and strict deadlines!

I don't know a lot about further studies etc., but IMO you shouldn't feel guilty if you decide to go ahead with a phd because it's not forever and it will benefit you and your family at the end of it. It is a sacrifice for the long term future yes, but what a great example to set to your children about working hard and aiming high!

Thanks ChenugFun

You really shouldn't feel guilty. I'm doing a funded PhD full time, and was TERRIFIED before I agreed to do it, asking myself I was being selfish, unreasonable, etc. Now I am so glad I bit the bullet and said yes. I know I would have regretted not doing it.

You say doing a PhD is a good option in terms of professional development, and I think you need to hold on to that. Your OH sounds wonderful and supportive and, as CheungFun suggests, it is a great example of aiming high to set to your DCs. The old stereotype of childless, single academics in ivory towers just doesn't hold anymore - many of the academic staff / PhD students I know have DCs and their work doesn't suffer.

Doing a PhD offers you far more flexibility than most 'normal' occupations and, if you're disciplined and conscientious, as I'm sure you are, you make time to do the work that needs done. I tend to work 9-5 Monday-Friday, but I work with some people who can't do these hours and prefer to fit their research in later in the day or even at weekends. There's also the benefit of being able to work at home if and when you need to. There are many great opportunities to be had from doing a PhD, from having the university pay for you to speak at international conferences (not always, but I was lucky enough to go to California on a funded trip last year), to seeing your work published in academic journals, to just spending time researching something you love and making your life all the richer for it. And of course a PhD's not forever, it's a finite period of time - it doesn't have to completely take over your life, as some naysayers might suggest.

I'd imagine, also, that your uni might offer the option of a January 2014 instead of September 2013 start if that was better for you, with your wee one on the way. Good luck with the funding application, I'll be rooting for you!

Thank you stripey, thats really interesting and encouraging.

I must confess to being very worried about the funding with applying part time and being heavily pregnant at interview! I am worried this will go against me.

I have 3 supervisors strongly backing my proposal which is good and they seem quite confident, I've aplied to a funding body and directly to the university.

I would think very carefully about this if I were you. Doing a PhD is NOT necessarily a guarantee of better future job prospects: most early career academics post-PhD have to contend with 2-3 years of short-term contracts, frequent relocations and endless job/grant applications before things begin to stabilise with a permanent job (and these are the lucky ones!).

If security for your family is something which is important to you, then you need to reflect on whether the constant upheavals and possibly lengthy commutes are compatible with that - and whether your DH's work (agricultural of some sort?) would work with you possibly having to move around.

The benefits that stripeyjimjams points out are there - flexibility, opportunities for travel, publications leading to personal fulfillment - WHILE you are doing the PhD, but I think you need to be very hard-headed about what the future job prospects are. Most academic jobs are incredibly over-subscribed, partly due to the over-production of PhDs in the current climate.

Not to rain on your parade - and best of luck with your application! - but I feel very strongly that no-one should be doing a PhD with the primary reason of securing an academic position afterwards. The odds are simply stacked against you.

Indeed, I think you have to evaluate carefully how good your prospects are likely to be once you finish your PhD.
Job stability is usually poor, unless you were already in secure employment.

On the other hand, do not feel guilty that you can't be a SAHM, or even a part-time mum.

But consider carefully how the part-time PhD will workout. In practice they are rarely properly part-time.

What FallingOver said. Post doc positions are hard to come by. I'm a phd administrator and from what i see, undertaking a research degree is a very intensive experience. Most people find it tough, even without family commitments. The ones who succeed are incredibly motivated, very organised and able to stick to deadlines. Getting into the 'flow' of research if you are part time can also be difficult, particularly towards the end, when it will take up most of your time.

I'd say that the feasibility of a part time PhD depends a lot on the subject. If you're in something where data collection requires collaboration with lots of other people/bodies (as mine did) then you need to be able to meet with these people/bodies inside normal office hours. Similarly, if you need access to archives for your research, you might want to check opening hours work with your schedule.

Another thing to consider is training requirements. Pretty much all PhDs these days come with the requirement that the university trains you in "transferable skills" - you have to do ten days training per full time year. In practice, this can mean attending workshops that are only held once every six months, on a day that might or might not be convenient for you, so you might want to find out how your proposed institution deals with these requirements.

Finally, I'd echo FallingOver and Lueji's points about evaluating your prospects post-PhD carefully. I spent the best part of five years on short term contracts before getting a permanent lecturer role. If you're thinking of staying in academia, have a look at the www.jobs.ac.uk website to see what sort of postdoc roles are available that you might be interested in and where they are.

Good luck!

I agree with FallingOver as well, but it totally depends on whether you want the PhD to help with your career or just because you want to do it. I did mine straight after my BSc and was lucky enough to get full funding - I submitted in 3.5 years so was working full time (as I went over my allotted 3 years funding) and writing up whilst working full time as a Consultant who travelled 4 hours a day was horrendous - no social life for months!

I've always said the hardest thing about doing one isn't that you have to be smart or mega brainy, it's literally being so stubborn and just never giving in, even when you have to re-write a chapter for the 4th time, even when your experiments / case study hasn't worked and you have to do it again and even when your thesis doesn't resemble your first ever research proposal as it's changed so much in three years.

I don't have kids so don't have that particular viewpoint, however I'd argue that what's wrong in putting yourself first for a change? If you want to do one, then do it - the fact you've had 'real world' experience as CEO may be very beneficial as opposed to the 'youngsters' like myself (then, not now!) who went straight into one from another degree, not having any experience.

It's wonderful that your Husband is so supportive - you'll need that when things don't go as expected (however I'm sure you'll be able to turn them round!).

I would, however, have a backup plan - I wanted to go into academia and lecturing etc was like 'Dead mans shoes' so I ended up in Industry. I actually think I prefer it now, but when I was looking for a post-doc / lecturing position, they were very hard to even get an interview for so perhaps try and publish as much as possible during your PhD and also start networking at various academic conferences if possible?

Good luck!

Falling, I don't think OP has said she wants an academic career? Although I agree with you about not necessarily enhancing job prospects. Your reasons are also why I have no intention of staying in academia - not really conducive to starting a family (even with a DH who wants to be a SAHD) and my personality isn't suited to overly insecure careers. That said, I didn't choose to do a PhD for an academic career, though it was an option when I started.

Good to see you're getting on with funding, I suppose it depends on uni/subject if they offer PT funding options. The good thing about a research degree is that you don't have to start in October, at ours you can start on the first of any month, although most start at the end of Sept when term starts.

I'm doing a part-time Phd and working, plus I have a five-year-old. Frankly, for me the jury is still out on whether it will all work out and be worthwhile.

If you are passionate about the topic, and if you're prepared to do it knowing that it won't necessarily lead to an academic job, then go for it - you will regret it otherwise. But one of the hard things about trying to get a foothold in the academic world is the need to be geographically mobile. If your H is tied to a particular area for farming purposes, it is going to make things hard.

MathsCat OP: 'I have wanted to do a PhD for a long time. I am 30 and a CEO in my sector, I don't feel there is a lot of room for me to move currently or develop further than this and I really want to move into academia.'

I'm in academia, and have been fortunate enough to secure a permanent job after 3 years post-doc. This has entailed 3 moves within the UK, every year, a long-distance relationship for 2 years, and a hell of a lot of travelling, quite apart from the strain of teaching and research. It's undoubtedly a rewarding career in many ways, but it's better to be realistic about some of the drawbacks.

Thanks all, yes my ambition is to certainly move into academia, the two universities close to me specialise in the area of research I am looking at (concerned with social sciences) and I am close enough to London and many places across the South East to access work in these areas. However I really do understand the competitiveness of these roles.
My intention would be to remain in my current role on a p/t basis as a back up and increase/ decrease hours as appropriate. I am very lucky to be fully supported in this by the directors of where I work so do not anticipate this being a problem as we've already laid out plans of how this would work.
I am concerned that I'll do all this and you say, then will not have the flexibility to make the career move I desire, but I also believe in giving you all to meet your goals and this is something I would love my children to grow up believing.
I suppose it's not the actual completion of the PhD that worries me, I know I am very organised and very disciplined. I am very passionate about the topic and my whole career so far has been dedicated to this area. I completed my MA whilst in full time employment and pregnant, and constantly juggle a variety of commitments. My worry is how much this will impact on my family life outside of the time I strictly allocate to it (in which I have to either work or do this), if it will be feasible to be so strict with my time etc.
i really appreciate all the views and advice though, it is very worthwhile food for thought.

I started a PhD part-time and had DD around the same time. I absolutely loved it but it was very, very hard, as it is difficult to get the reading and research done when you are sleep-deprived with a newborn and constantly nursing. If I were you, I'd wait til the baby was at least 6 months to a year old. Good luck.

I think lots of people have said what I was thinking, which is that doing the PhD is reasonably flexible, it's the career afterwards that may not be so easy to move about. I have relocated for work and also had my husband live away in the week so we can both have jobs, the academic sector is really struggling at the moment (or rather everyone in it is struggling) and paywise, it is not great for a post-doc after PhD which you may be doing for years, or on short term contracts, or have to move about. You won't make your millions plus you will need your husband to be supportive for decades, not 3 years if you want to be a professor or climb the career ladder.

Sorry if it sounds negative, I don't see anything wrong with doing a PhD now as it doesn't sound like you are going to be financially worse off, but some of your assumptions about it being for your future career might need further examination.

I think yes you need to be and remain realistic about future career aspirations, but I don't think is a reason not to do this. Yes the jobs are very competitive, but someone has got to get them, it is about preparing for that and working hard to achieve it.
also it sounds as if you have a strong career background to also fall back onto if needed. I would go for it, and no I don't think you are being selfish, I think you and your husband are working together to plan out the best path for your family. Good luck!