to feel worried about my child at school

[boobymama]

am i being unreasonable to be so upset on collecting my 4 year old son from school last tuesday,to find that they had let him play out in his trainers morning and afternoon in the snow (-4) and sat all day in SOAKING trainers and socks. Why in the worst conditions we have had for ages, do they have to play outside? Why cant the teachers help the children to dress appropriately? My son developed a fever the next day and was off his food and sick! 5 more parnets have said exactly the same. The head says bring wellies!!!

I think most people in RL would be pretty miffed their 4 year old was in soaking wet trainers all day. At my ds's school they wouldn't be allowed out without wellies and that is a middle school.

the issue with 1 child having to stay in is the staff that need to stay with them I guess. Teachers still need to have lunch breaks and the lunch time staff are usually outside. There are ways round it I am sure but its not really the point.

I do agree the school should make sure the children are dressed properly but not sure whether I agree with them keeping a child in because the parent has not given them the correct clothes.

definitely Valium school sounds very heartless - we were always sticking wet clothes on radiators at my pre-school (and using spares if necessary)

I think the problem is that the OP complained that the school don't help them dress appropriately but it turns out he had nothing to dress appropriately in.

It was snowy and he only had trainers on ! Even my dyspraxic 3yr old was able to manage snow boots. We lived abroad and not playing out in all weathers was not an option !

If a child doesn't have wellies or suitable clothing than they shouldn't be allowed outside, the teacher shouldn't just think 'Oh fuck it' and let them out anyway! They should be kept inside and at home time parents should be told to bring in spare clothes.

Lots of schools are fab but dear God the more I have to do with them the more I wonder if teachers/school workers know anything about small kids at all!

In the 1970's when I was primary age, no school would take a 4yr old unless they were toilet trained, knew their colours (not sure re significance of that one as that had died out when I qualified to teach) and could dress themselves. I know things have changed, but I taught in the late 80's and I didn't have time to help 30kids dress every play time & lunchtime ... What concerns me more is a friend still in teaching has 12year olds who can't tie their own shoe laces .. WTF ??

Trainers in the snow? Recipe for disaster. Wellies. Cheap as chips either from Amazon/Matalan/local shoe stall on the market.. easy to mark w. perm marker. And you dont get ill from the cold/wet - that old wives tale got disproved years ago ... Why do some parents today think teachers have time to 'parent' .. on top of providing academic and social skills? The basics should be covered and/or provided at home ... and that means food/shelter/ clothes/hygiene/manners and moral compass (awaits flaming ..) ...

'A blanket 'oh the children have to go outside' regardless is plain stupid.'

Blimey, good job you didn't grow up with my grandmother- if there'd been an outside school in South Wales she'd have sent us there.
Children NEED to run around outside a) it's good for them and b) they concentrate on lessons much better.

I'm confused about all the different footwear tbh having just read the OP< but fwiw I've kept mine off because I don't want them sent out to play in the snow at school with nothing dry to change into.

They can play out here, and come in and put on dry clothes - they are older than yours as well.

I think keep him off for a few days till the snow has gone. Children in reception always struggle with clothes and a lot of other issues, and I think it's fine to just stay at home when circumstances make it trickier than normal.

Clarks Goretex Shoes are your friend.
DD wears Clarks Goretex boots from October to April, they look smart and she never gets wet or cold.

I work in a school, and it is surprising how many parents send their children in to school with clothes they simply can't manage

Shoes with laces when they can't tie laces
Gloves when they can't put them on
Coats with fiddly buttons

Teach them how to do it, or put mittens on string and velcro fastened shoes if they can't yet.

I can't swear my DC sdidn't need any help when they first wwent to school, but I think they could do their own shoes and coats. Teachers and CA sdo their best to help, but a whole playtime could be taken up sorting out every child.

Saw a child in reception today with wellies on, and her right wellie had a big smiley face drawn on it. To help her put them in the right feet.

Aaah, I'm getting so exasperated reading this thread! Can you lot please stop the 'wet feet won't make you ill' crap????!!!!!!

Yes, it is germs and bugs that make you ill, but getting chilled will make you EXTREMELY susceptible to the germs and bugs that are around.

In a test during the flu season, they sat 90 people with their feet in bowl of ice water for 90 minutes, and 90 people with their feet in an empty bowl. 29% of the people with their feet in the ice water developed cold symptoms over the next 5 days, and only 9% of the control group did.

So if the OP's DS did develop an illness, then it is quite likely that being soaking wet and cold played a very big role in that!!!

When i was a girl, in the 70 s, we all had these plimsolls that were brightly coloured and had left and right written on them

In a test during the flu season, they sat 90 people with their feet in bowl of ice water for 90 minutes, and 90 people with their feet in an empty bowl. 29% of the people with their feet in the ice water developed cold symptoms over the next 5 days, and only 9% of the control group did

Can you find this study please.

Unless the people doing the study could be sure that the 180 people they tested had exactly the same level of fitness, exactly the same immune systems, exactly the same diet and so on, then the test is meaningless. Some people are more susceptible to colds and flu, some are never ill, some smoke, some drink, some take vitamins.

Plus, where did these tests take place? Were all 180 in the same room? Did anyone admit to already feeling ropey? Were the 29% sitting close to each other?

Too many variables. Too many questions. No 'proof' that being cold was the deciding factor at all

Hmmm...so it's not just me who thinks being cold and wet makes you ill if bugs are flying around. I speak from personal experience as someone who got croup if I ever went out with wet hair, even as a teenager. My mother would tell me I would get croup, I didn't listen and I got croup. (And I didn't grow out of it until I was 20, so so much for it being a child hood illness )

But knowing this, I ensure my DC have dry feet/take a change of socks to school - there is a limit to how many spare pairs of socks a school has.

Somebody asked for references...

www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/URItheFlu/2136

The researchers randomized 180 healthy participants to 20 minutes of water at 10 degrees C or an empty bowl. In the current issue of the journal Family Practice, they reported:

There was no difference in acute cold symptoms immediately after the experiment.
After a few days, 13 of the 90 participants who were chilled reported they were suffering from the symptoms of a cold, compared with five of the 90 controls. The result was statistically significant at p = 0.047.
The 18 participants who came down with symptoms of a cold also reported that they were more likely to suffer colds during the year than did the 162 who remained healthy. The result was statistically significant at p = 0.007.

fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/6/608

Results. 13/90 subjects who were chilled reported they were suffering from a cold in the 4/5 days after the procedure compared to 5/90 control subjects (P = 0.047). There was no evidence that chilling caused any acute change in symptom scores (P = 0.62). Mean total symptom score for days 1?4 following chilling was 5.16 (±5.63 s.d. n = 87) compared to a score of 2.89 (±3.39 s.d. n = 88) in the control group (P = 0.013). The subjects who reported that they developed a cold (n = 18) reported that they suffered from significantly more colds each year (P = 0.007) compared to those subjects who did not develop a cold (n = 162).

fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/6/608/reply

Hypothermia in animals and humans can induced pancytopenia (4) and impair the functional activity of leukocytes (3). In animal models, cold temperatures may adversely affect many infectious diseases. Lillie and colleagues (5) in studying St Louis encephalitis in mice and typhus in guinea pigs observed that infectious morbidity was highest in the winter and lowest in the summer � corresponding to environmental temperature. Moreover, the incubation period (i.e. subclinical phase) for both infections was significantly shorter in the wintertime than in summer. Thus, if colder temperatures impair the ability of the host to overcome an overt infection, one could expect that the same would be true in combating subclinical infections. The fact that animals reallocate energy resources from reproduction and growth to the immune system during winter (6) further supports the concept that cold exposure impairs immunity.

I felt bad today as I had to send DS (yr3) in his normal school shoes as he had left his wellie boots at my mums after going sledging yesterday ( but did put a spare pair of socks in his bag) but he had wet play anyway...

DD is in reception and when I went into the school this afternoon to read with yr2 kids, she was in the playground with her teacher (and about 6 kids) making the most enormous snowman and having a fab time (she had her wellie boots on).

I do think it's the parents responsibility to make sure their children have the correct clothes on.

However I would be fuming if a teacher would not help my DD do up her coat (she cannot do zips but her coat does have Velcro fastening too but it can come undone) or ask her to change her tights if she had fallen in the snow (she had a spare pair in her book bag just incase)...

At ds's school, parents are asked at the beginning of the year to bring wellies that are to be kept at school. I love the fact that children are encouraged to play outside in all weather.

Well, you can't really do a double blind trial if some of the participants have to sit with their feet in icy water, now, can you!!!!!!!!!!

My ds is 4 and in nursery in wet snowy weather i send him to school in snow suit wellys hat scarf and gloves and school shoes in a carrier bag. his teacher commented on thursday that 5 children in her group needed help getting snow suits on which is why they were runnibg late. He puts everyrhing on himself struggles with snowsuit and glove which the teacher helps with i know hes always warm for outdoor play which kids love!

Thankyou withgreatpower, appreciate it I wouldn't know how to google for something like that!

So: The 18 participants who came down with symptoms of a cold also reported that they were more likely to suffer colds during the year than did the 162 who remained healthy The result was statistically significant at p = 0.007.

And: There was no evidence that chilling caused any acute change in symptom scores (P = 0.62)

And: It's those people who are prone to developing a common cold when they are chilled -- they've already got the virus, but the chilling is actually reducing their respiratory defense."

Seems to say to me that if you are already prone to getting cold etc (low immune system maybe) then the cold could make you more likely, but if you are generally healthy then it won't.

DD hardly ever gets colds/illnesses, and when she does seems to shrug them off really quickly (Swine Flu for eg, she was climbing the walls as was I by day 3, but our neighbours children were out of it for a full week). So her being cold/wet wouldn't necessarily mean she'd get a cold, because she isn't prone to colds under normal circumstances.

Some people are 'sickly' I suppose, so it makes sense to keep them wrapped up.

They also believe (have a look at the Cardiff University Cold Centre website) the iceberg concept for viral infection. Hadn't really considered that but it does make sense to me. The pointy tip is those with severe symptoms, you then move down to a greater number with mild symptoms, then futher down to an even larger number of those infected without symptoms, and then the greatest number of those exposed but no infection. So those infected without symtoms would quite likely get ill if they got wet/cold for an extended period of time. Those exposed could also become infected if they get wet/cold.

An interesting site, actually. (And if you live in Cardiff you can apparently becomem a volunteer and get paid to go in at the first sign of a cold and take new medications that they are testing!)

RooneyMara did youreally keep your kids off school just in case they got wet when playing out?! Really?

Why not just send wellies in?

I've heard it allnow!

I didn't keep him off. I took him out of school, not just for this issue but several others. He was too little to cope.

He went back in y1 and was fine.