To take 2 infectious-poxy children out in public...

[morecakerequired]

My DTs have the pox. (spots still appearing so definitely still infectious) Last week my DD1 had it and we spent the whole week indoors as a result. (DS went to and from school by himself) This week I am having to do the school run as DD1 is too young to go with just DS for supervision due to the 2 busy roads to cross. I am taking DTs up to the school in their buggy with the rain cover over them - standing away from other people and leaving as soon as kids are in/out. (we live a 2 min walk from the school)

SO - WIBU to carry on after the school run and take the DTs out for a walk and maybe even go into the small local supermarket to pick up some essentials? WIABU to perhaps take the rain cover off if there were no other people around on the street at that time?

I am so fed up of being stuck in the house and DTs are too - 2 weeks is just too long - and I really think we would all benefit from some fresh air. I can't let them go out into the garden just now as it is under a foot of snow and I don't think getting cold and wet playing in the snow would really help them.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable, but a few of the mums at school have made pointed remarks about how I had better hope there are no pregnant mums/people with low immune systems in the playground so just wondering if taking them for a walk will be bad too? AIBU to think that in a buggy with a rain cover over them and not actually coming into direct contact with anyone they aren't going to infect anyone?

(perfectly happy to accept if IABU - genuinely curious)

No, the nursery allows it. As long as they are well enough then they can go with whatever bug. All the parents are told the policy before signing up. We lived the nursery and their relaxed attitude to illness is fine for us. The only thing they don't allow is children with D&V.

I took ds to a nursery for a trial morning, to see how he would get on in the environment, and was shocked that there was a child with chicken pox curled up in the reading corner. It was pre ds getting vaccinated and I said we would have to leave, and she said that most parent's were keen for their dcs to get cp so they didn't follow the keeping them off for 5-7 days policy. I know some kids are ok with cp but this little boy looked so ill and miserable.

I know people who have had their dcs vaccinated so they didn't have to take the time off work, so I guess that is a possibilty.

A nursery that allows children with chickenpox to attend is going against NHS advice.

All the ore schools/nurseries I know don't allow it.

Generally it is mild for many children but not all, there ius a mnetter who's little boy is currently in hospital with swelling of the brain because of chickenpox. A perfectly healthy 15mth old with no immune problems etc. Yes its rare but it can happen :(

Yes, buying people just can't take that much time off. If it's not something you are comfortable with, then there are other nurseries/cms etc.

BTW the only reason the op is having to stay in for three weeks is because she has three children who have got chickenpox one after the other, normally its a week that you would have to stay in.

You woukldnt have to take three weeks off, it would be 5-7 days for one child, some of that would be the weekend.

If you have multiple children then yes you can end up with a few weeks.

Ds1 got it when I was at uni, no nursery for a week so I had to muss classes and didn't get the time I had planned for my dissertation.

Its generally one week, not ideal but you are legally entitled to have the time off.

If you keep raincover on then risks v low - although I'd only do this if no other choice and even then would try to say goodbye at school gate or at corner etc (depending on age could your older ds walk her the last bit). Shopping can be done online.

However my paediatrician friend tells me that reasonable to take your proxy children out as everyone should catch it in childhood but way do I know.

I don't condone spreading the virus deliberately or knowingly and whilst children have died from cp those of you whose dcs have it or have been exposed might like to look on bright side and be thankful they are getting it over with:

Cp is far worse in adults. DH and BIL had it in their twenties and whilst pox parties may not be recommended by medical profession DH wishes he had been taken to one as a youngster.

25% of cp deaths occur in children compared to over 90% of cases

Your dd getting it now may just prevent your gc getting it in the womb

The downside however is that very young children don't always develop lasting immunity.

I reiterate, do not think you are immune just because you've had Chicken Pox once. I wasn't and I think it is important that pregnant women don't act rashly with regards to exposing themselves to CP just because they've had it once.

I teach and when it was going round school my pregnant colleague was signed off for two weeks to prevent exposure, even though she had had CP as a child.

I'm not saying its impossible to get cp twice but most people don't. I've been exposed several times since having it myself and touch wood not succumbed again.

Your colleague's dr was right to be cautious though ambrosia.

NHS figures say around 13 per cent who present with CP have had it previously.

I can't read the whole thread as it terrifies me, but please, please do not take your known infectious children out.

My son is receiving treatment for leukaemia and the thought of him catching chicken pox again (he has already had it during treatment) fills me with horror. Both of my children had it in the pre-leukaemia days and were a bit poorly, but nothing major. When it happens now it is potentially fatal for him, as the lovely MrsDeVere has said. He had contact with his cousin before christmas who subsequently developed chickenpox - this meant my son had to take two weeks worth of toxic drugs in order to try and prevent it happening to him.

I'm sure your children will not suffer socially or developmentally because of a few days at home , but deciding to take them out in public could potentially kill another child.

Mrsdevere my heart goes out too you and family.

My DS had the pox twice once when he was baby which affected breathing problems he had on going and again when he was around 6yrs old and he was covered in spots.

Just another one to add to the list asking the OP to be mindful of adults with compromised immune systems. My lovely cousin is now having palliative chemo. Last time round while having chemo he caught CP, it turned to pneumonia, and he was in ICU and we nearly lost him.

It is a serious illness for those with weakened immune systems.

I did not take ds out at all when he had it. I am a single mum so it was not easy - had to live on what was in freezer and mercy drops from friend! It is not fair to take anyone with cp which is highly infectious into a room where others may be who could have a risk of developing complications if they were to catch it.
If other parents want to deliberately infect their kids with it then that's another matter but as you have no way of knowing who may be more at risk of complications then you absolutely should not take them into that environment. I don't believe it's morally right- but do feel sorry for you trapped in house for so long. Hope they're better soon.

but a few of the mums at school have made pointed remarks about how I had better hope there are no pregnant mums/people with low immune systems in the playground

Well if they were really bothered they would be walking your older two to school.

I think you are doing as much as you can but really you can't start shopping and walking.

If it is doing the rounds is there another mum with an infected child, or a child who has had it who could visit?

I remeber being sent to a neighbour's house to play with their poxy child because I had had it and none of her usual friends had.

I know it is hard, but it is for a reason.

how far do those who are pregnant/have low immune states have the right to demand that other people curtail their lives when they have no choice but to take that risk on board?

Er................. so for the 10 years I was on immunosupressives I should not have left the house.

I shouldn't have asked the person who sat next to me with a streaming cold to move.

You can clic and collect shopping from Tesco now if you don't mind horse eat burgers. You order then choose to collect instead of delivery, drive up to the delivery point, leave the children in the car next to you as you check and sign for your shopping. No contact, shopping done.

Sashh - I agree you make a good point, if the other mums don't want a mum with poxy DCs doing the school run, then they do need to offer alternatives. What's the alternative for the OP, not send her older DCs to school (when they have already missed school for their own illnesses) because her younger ones are ill? That would be unreasonable. Expect very young DCs to make their own way home? Again, not reasonable.

If other mums are aware that someone in their DCs class has a sibling with CP, they have to accept that poorly child will be out doing the school run or else offer to help out.

That is the first time I have seen that suggestion on one of these threads, what a sensible solution to the school run problem!

But the contagion chances within a single household is 90%. So should we isolate siblings who are 90% likely to be infectious within 2 weeks after their brother or sister falls ill? If not, why not?

Because I've never heard of anyone keeping their DC off school on the off-chance, nor would I imagine the school's response would be particularly pretty if you tried. Yet if we are talking relative risks, that would be a great deal more useful in not spreading CP than not going in to school briefly with your DC under a raincover.

MrsDeVere - so sorry to hear about your DD.

Your story, and many others I have read on MN is why we're keeping DS in this week (he's not at nursery or school so it's not hard for us). He played with a friend last weekend and the next day we got an email to say their son has chickenpox. I think the incubation time is 10-14 days?

So we've decided to keep him in/or only go for walks in isolated areas until we know whether he got it or not. (I admit that the freezing temperatures outside have helped this decision!) We're definitely not going to baby/toddler groups until we know.

But the contagion chances within a single household is 90%. So should we isolate siblings who are 90% likely to be infectious within 2 weeks after their brother or sister falls ill? If not, why not?

Tricky one - I'm all for keeping siblings away from people who are known to be immune suppressed etc but the risk of an asymptomatic sibling being infectious on a given day are lower than 90% and infection control measures should be proportional to the risk.

CP has an incubation period of between 10 and 20 days and is infectious from a day or so before symptoms appear and for 5-6 days afterwards. Hence a sibling could develop symptoms anywhere from 9-26 days later (becoming infectious at between 8 and 25 days) and keeping them at home all that time would be impractical.

The chances of a child being infectious on the 8th day are quite low as they would have had to have caught it at the earliest 'opportunity' and had the minimum incubation period. A higher number of siblings become infectious round about day 15 but the fact that a child does not have symptoms at this stage puts the odds of them having caught it at below 90%.