To think people in UK are becoming more selfish (and then angry when challeneged?!)

[Bellerophon]

First post here so go easy on me please!!

AIBU for thinking that people are just becoming more and more selfish and aggressive these days; and then quick to yell at you when you challenge them about it?

Mumsnet regulars will know this all too well when they come on and post about parent and child spaces. I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother expecting children or with young children, to hope for the nice little bonus to her day that is a P&C space. It is NOT her right to have the space, it is clearly first come, first served. But, you get extra space to get out the buggy, you get extra space for the bump! So why not leave these spaces for those who really need it?

But from the look of things, that thought is for the weak and feeble mothers. Because there are plenty out there who don't have young kids who need space, or don't have bumps, but yet they despise and viscerally hate the fact that others might be getting a "privilege" of some sort. So they will rush to take a P&C space just because it's closer to the store. And immediately focus on the fact that these spaces are offered as a marketing-style incentive by stores, and are not a "right" in themselves.

Of course P&C spaces aren't a "right" - but what happened to society? I live in London and every day I get on the tube and see pregnant women ignored...by other women. Usually young, usually uptight looking and ready to shout at anyone who reminds them that there's more to life than grabbing the first seat available.

We have got to the point where anything which favours another person needs to be snatched out of their grasp on a first-come first-served basis. If there are seats on the Tube? Tough luck for daring to be a mother and commuting - you should have got up earlier. Daring to shop during rush hour, with a 8-month bump? You should use the spaces at the back of the car park like "everyone else" who is foolish enough not to grab the big spaces at the front. Oh wait, I forgot - we should have an Ocado account of course, at that stage of pregnancy.

My parents shudder when I tell them these stories, talking about how people, men an women, used to open doors for women with children automatically; would give up their seats without hesitation for pregnant women; would follow rules that helped society remain harmonious. However back then people used to fear being shunned in society. Today, people assume they'll never see that person again, so act accordingly.

AIBU?

YANBU - I agree with everything you said.

People are obsessed with "rights" and "legal requirements" and seem to have no time for kindness and consideration of others.

YANBU. A lot more people have a sense of automatic entitlement than they used to. Plus a lot of people think 'what can I get out of this?' rather than 'what can I give back?'

YANBU - people are becoming more and more knobbish.

HOW DARE YOU

Am an erstwhile history student, and in modern-ish (past few hundred years) there has been a tendency for society to become a bit decadent and inward-looking (selfish, arrogant, etc) whenever the threat of a big war (and consequent threats to life and livelihood) was not prevalent. Think romantic poets and fin-de-siècle France (late 1800s).

Then of course there would be a big war, people got killed, the economy was awful, people died from malnutrition or an epidemic in their droves and everyone remembered that there is a bigger picture, and that no one of us is as important as all that really. Think 1940s/50s. That's the environment in which our parents/grandparents were raised, and that collective memory is now starting to fade.

So people start thinking they are more important than others, etc. get selfish, forget others, etc.

Here endeth the history lecture, hope it made sense, but it's my take on why things are as they are at the moment re. people's attitudes etc.

Not saying we need a big war to sort it out, just my thoughts on why things are like this. I think it would take a big crisis of some kind to change what's happening. Or summat.

YABU. London is a different planet. Travel down regularly on the East Coast mainline and tends to get worse the further south you get. Before I get told off, was born and raised in the SE and lived in a (Latin) European country for a while. Find the UK in general fast more polite than its citizens seem to think it is. All is not lost!

Poppy that is really interesting, thanks :)

I am 7 months preg and live in London , am regularly on busses tubes etc at rush hour and have never had a problem getting a seat. Sometimes you have to ask as people genuinely don't notice , but no one male or female has ever hesitated and usually apologises for not getting up straight away ,

Banging on about the collapse of moral values is something that only DM readers and old farts do; there have always been people who behave like twats - there was no golden age civility :)

I used to find driving south on the A1, people's driving and consideration for other road users got progressively worse, the closer to London I got.

I don't know, I raised DS1 in London mostly and was pregnant there with DS2 and then we lived there until he was almost 1.

Never had any sort of problem on busses or tube, someone always willing to help with the buggy on stairs etc.

I found Londoners to be very kind and helpful on the whole, they are of course busy, but so was I.

TBH though the world is mostly nice to me - perhaps it is me? I get on with people.

No, myrubberduck - I'm under 20 years old and people have become noticeably twattier in the past few years.

No point in even bothering to try and cross the road sometimes - even when the cars are crawling along slowly and it's raining, it's rare for someone to stop for a second - even when it wouldn't delay their journey at all.

Not to mention letting other cars out onto the road and general lack of consideration for each other.

Agree completely there was no golden age of civility. What I think (educated guess) we've had is relative pockets of civility (disclaimer: obviously not universal) and cycles of war/peace/crisis and during the periods of relative stability, people get more selfish.

Or maybe the economic crisis has brought some of it on, but am not well enough versed in that side of things to say.

FWIW, I live in a naice commuter-belt area near London which is populated by retired people and families. My experiences vary from being blown away by the niceness of others (the older gent who took my trolley back at the supermarket as I struggled with my toddler) to being gobsmacked by their rudeness (two "ladies" this week who have queue-jumped in front of me and DCs - why?!).

I think Poppy has a very good point

YANBU. Don't know if its connected but you know how toddlers are mostly self-centred, entitled little darlings who have tantrums when they can't have what they want? - well, this trend for adults to wear soft bootees (uggs) and onesies FFS!, are adults infantilising themselves? Making it ok to strop like a five year old and shout "mine" all the time, rather than embracing the more rational and less self-centred approach that should be the norm as you grow up? Just been wondering about it lately...

You have a good point there!

You find the world you look for

I have never seen this. I meet the occasional wank badger but the amount of lovely people I meet every day far outweighs it.

Why do people never ask 'why is there so much good in the world'?

I think YABU.

I come across lots of nice people in life. People that hold doors open, people that will pass out a trolley when you are waiting behind them at the big line of trolleys at the supermarket, people that stand to one side to let you pass, or who give you a big smile and a thank you when you do those type of things for them.

I think you get back what you give out. If you are generally kids and helpful, you tend to get a little feel good factor out of it, so you do it more, and in turn encourage other people to do the same back to you.

I used to travel to london a lot, pregnant with small dc and buggy, then with 2 small dc and I never had a problem getting a seat or getting a hand up the stairs on certain tube stations where there wasn't a lift (or I didn't know where the lift was). Like a poster said above if you ask most people are only to happy to help.

Last time I wa sin London I had to get off at ladywell train station but the train only went to Lewi so I had to catch a bus, didn't have a clue where I was all I knew was that I needed the fire station, as I'm on the phone asking the person if I was on the right bus a lovely lady said I was and told me when to get off and I can write pages and pages of similar stories.

I do agree people are more collectively "what can we get" instead of "how can we help" but for me it's always been like that.

Yep. My pet hate is car incidents. I think most people will scratch a car or bump something at some point but wow, have I seen some over reactions.

I mean no one can say sorry because it's "admitting guilt" and everyone feels it's a "right to have some over priced quote from a garage for "work" when a bit of T cut would do.

i have been hit (reversed into and scraped) twice and the difference when I got out and said "don't worry it's nothing" was amazing. They went from aggressive and defensive to really apologetic.

Regardless of what other people are doing, I shall continue to open doors for people, give up my seat on the bus and generally try to treat others in the way I like to be treated.

I stood aside for a young lad on a scooter the other day and he said thankyou as he went by.

If you smile at the world, it smiles back at you....
That has always been my motto and so far it's worked for me.
I open the door for people, sometimes they offer back. I offer a seat if I see a pregnant lady, offer to help with buggies etc

When pregnant, people offered me a seat and then when DD was little lots of people would offer to help me with the buggy. Never had a problem with it really.

Crumbs I think you all sound mad

2 years ago I regularly had people elbowing each other out of the way to help me up & down stairs/trains with my pram ...I get people handing me parking tickets that have hours left on them and doors opened left,right and centre.....these are the people I try to remember, not the twits with bad attitude. I try to forget them very swiftly. In London people are even friendlier my closest friend is a Londoner born & bred and she cringes when she's out with me he..he

Thank you for all these lovely responses, I am very happy to stand corrected and know I might be being a bit negative but after years of this it makes you wonder.

@CloudsandTrees - curious to know where you live (in broad area terms!) as I would love to meet these people who acknowledge what I give out. I'm not saying I never meet them, but drive in London for an hour and you will see what I mean.

Megglevache, are you that Brick woman? I hear these things happen to her a lot.

I live about an hour West of London, so I do know what you mean about the driving in London thing! I will only drive routes I know well in London for fear of being in the wrong lane and having to face the wrath of an angry London driver!

I think it is just a driving in London thing you are referring too. There is a noticeable difference in people when I get off the M4!