AIBU about these customers?

[PeacockFeathers]

Was spoken to like crap today at work by two very well spoken and dressed youngsters. DP was stood nearby in the shop making purchases coicidently and thinks I WBU.

Two young people wanting to buy wine. Both look under 25.

He has ID, she doesn't. I tell them I need to see both or I can't sell it to them, the law is clear on suspecting they are purchasing it for someone who is underage.

He offers uni ID with no date of birth on it, I tell him sorry but its not an accepted form of ID.

Both proceed to have a rant at me, telling me the law only applies to who is buying the alcohol. Tell me to use my common sense.

Call my supervisor over who backs me up and asks them to stop speaking to me like that.

Boy rants about how I am supposed to provide good customer service. Asks for my name and says they will complain.

DP thinks I ruined someones night. I think the boy looked anywhere from 16+ so was right, but feel shite at how patronising they were.

Damn straight. Its patronising, rude and discriminatory. Unless you ID everyone.

The law is that it's illegal to sell alcohol to someone if you think they will pass it to someone underage. It's not unreasonable to assume that 2 young people buyin alcohol together will be sharing it

I would agree with you for an on sale, but for an off sale you can't be expected to know what they are goin to do once they leave the shop. With 2 friends together I would make the assumption that they are of similar age or at least within a couple of years, not one 7yrs younger ( I think she said the one was 24 did she?), imo it would be less than unlikely for her to be in trouble with the law in the circumstances stated. It's similar with being illegal to serve a drunk person, there is no legal definition of drunk, just a limit for driving, so it is a matter of opinion whether someone is drunk or not, apart from the very obvious fall down drunk, it would be hard to prove and so, in a first offence at least, not worth prosecuting.

Saying that though I appreciate it was company policy for her.

With regards though to those being refused in a supermarket with a trolley full of shopping and have their dc with them, it is ridiculous to refuse the sale.

Btw I also have a personal licence and have been a licensee for 18 yrs.

YANBU At. All.
I'm 29 and challenged regularly (must be all the anti ageing potions!) and I just accept it.

I worked in a department store as a student and the grief we would regularly get for not selling youthful faced people gift wines, liqueur chocolates, kitchen knives was ridiculous! You were doing your job OP an obeying the law. The student was being incredibly rude and unreasonable and your DP is just being a fool.

If they are going to ask for ID, then surely the UK needs to issue ID cards? Not everyone has a passport or driving licence. (Yes, I am aware this is a whole can of worms.)

I was asked for ID last time I was back in UK (not sure why, as I am well into my 40s). I offered either a Polish driving licence or a French ID card. They ummed and ahhed for a while, and then decided I was allowed my one bottle of Chardonnay.

Half the problem is many places, especially the big chains, are so fearful of prosecution that they have these blanket rules that are stricter than the law states, mainly because they don't trust their staff, or train them enough, to use their own common sense and interpret the law in a reasonable way.

I put my ID out on the counter if I'm buying alcohol - I carry my driving licence at all times anyway and it does no harm to have it out ready for if they ask for it.

Last year I got carded in Homebase while buying a saw. A saw! I was 29 and 6 months' pregnant

YANBU, I work in retail and regularly make the person I am serving and everyone with that person show me ID (if it is enough drink / cigs for more than one possibly not if It was one can and ten cigs).

This is the law.

You did the right thing. They were little shits. Your DP is being very unreasonable. He'd be happy for you to lose your job would he? Pay the on the spot fine for you? No,no he wouldn't.

In all honesty why shouldn't 16 and 17 drink responsibly in a pub.

All enforcing 18 does is make every child think the law is an arse and encourage them to drink way too much off licence booze in the park.

There they learn to smoke and take drugs too.

By the time I went to Uni at 18 booze wasn't novel, I done all that in my home village amongst friends.

The state some of the students from London (18 enforced and high prices) got in at freshers was truly frightening.

YANBU but I do think does it matter if the person with is underage? Its only illgeal to buy alcohol under 18 not drink it. In fact you can drink from age 5 in your own home.

I cannot remember the last time I was id'd I keep hoping I will be and I just turned 23

Last example was meant more in a if a mother was out with her teenager.

I went to pubs at 15, back in the 70's.
I'm still here. And ds at 17 goes to parties and I'll buy him a bottle of vodka or Jack Daniels to take along.
He had his crowning moment and right of passage at 15 when he threw up, he knows he'll never ever do that again.
If you educate your kids about alcohol, then they will learn how to be sensible with it, banning it and making it into a big issue will just make them want to try it.
I'm happy to go along with the 18 year old law, it means I can control what alcohol my ds can drink, but FFS 25?
It's ridiculous and supermarkets are just trying to save their own arses.
And as I said above to those that said that everybody should have an ID?
No way, I refuse to even contemplate it.

I witnessed a similar event in Morrisons. A really stuck up uni student arguing the toss with the woman serving her. She even turned round to me and asked me to buy her wine.
I said ' you are beginning to look like a desperate Pratt now love'. She shut up.

I agree with everyone else that OP WNBU - if the customer didn't have acceptable ID, it's neither here nor there if his friend doesn't.

Having said that, I don't agree with 'Challenge 25' - I can assure you it's not stopping my teenage students from laying their hands on booze, & my hackles involuntarily bristle at the idea of people being asked to prove they're 25 in order to demonstrate that they are over 18.

I wouldn't be able to satisfy the requirement - I don't drive & I don't carry my passport around with me, so if Sainsbury's (or whoever) did take it into their heads that I was under 25 (I'm 42 & look it), they'd be re-shelving my entire shop whilst I took my money elsewhere.

I also think it's unreasonable that staff are being expected to ID someone other than the person buying the alcohol. If you are 18+, & legally buying booze, it should be entirely your lookout if you share it with someone younger once you've left the shop.

It's completely unfair to put the onus on shop staff - unless the person with the ID is loudly shouting 'WHAT FLAVOUR WKD DO YOU WANT, THEN?' at their ID-less companion, I suppose. The requirement for the checkout operator should be 'Were there any clear cut indications that the shopper was buying this for someone underage?' & not 'Did your spidey sense suggest to you that the shopper might be planning to share this with another party who is not actually involved in the transaction?'

I can't see how this policy serves any useful purpose. The customer & his companion will have grumped off to another store, & the person who couldn't 'prove they were 25 in order for someone else to do something which is legal at 18' will have stayed outside the shop next time.

So - no innocent 17 year olds -if there ever was one in this scenario, which is doubtful - protected from the demon drink, a pointless row & lost custom.

But again, & with years of bartending under my belt, the OP wasn't being unreasonable in enforcing this nonsensical policy - it's her job. & given neither of them actually had acceptable ID, the fact that the companion had none is really moot...

They probably were underage if they got so arsey about it. I went to sainsburys the other day to get some wine and was asked for ID (I'm 30) but happened not to have any on me. I just accepted that I just had to suck it up and go out later or some where else to get it once I had it on me.

If these two were genuinely over 18 all they had to do was go somewhere else and send him in on his own, no buggy really.

Yanbu.

You don't have to prove you are 25!
Challenge 25 was introduced to protect the people selling alcohol from prosecution -it used to be 21 but there were still too many under aged sales

I think you were not being unreasonable OP; anyway if they are so up on the rules of buying alcohol, perhaps they should have brought their passports or drivers licenses!

It's nice that your supervisor is on your side, and I'm 99.9% sure there won't be a complaint!

I think your DP is in the wrong to tell you that you've spoilt their evening

YANBU.

I fell foul of the 'everyone has to have ID rule'. Was with brother and his gf who are both 18 but probably don't look it. They got ID'd, and had ID. I was with them, but didn't as had just come out with my debit card. I'm 31. I definitely look 25. No sale, because apparently once they've asked for it, they can't sell it if no ID is supplied. This was Tesco, so glad to see that they've got a bit more sensible about it. Was furious because we had to go home to find my passport and then go back.

Challenge 25 isn't about proving you are over 25 to buy alcohol. It's about being challenged for ID to prove you are over 18 if you don't look over 25. Reason for that is because it is extremely difficult for people to guess if someone is over or under 18.

EG, DD is 12, but could very easily pass for 15 becuase of her height.

As long as you can prove you are over 18 you can buy the alcohol.

My friend (22) and his dad recently tried to buy a bottle of wine at Tesco, and they weren't sold it because my friend didn't have ID... Another friend's mother wasn't sold beer with her weekly shop because she had her 13yo daughter with her... That is stupid imo

Stuff 'em. If they had any brains they would be have left and gone somewhere else, and that time the one without ID could have stayed outside or wandered around the shops while the other one got the alcohol. Very simple. You didn't ruin their night at all, it was just someone getting up on their high horse and shitting all over someone who was just trying to do their jobs. The challenge 25 thing is everywhere and it's been well advertised. It's annoying but it's just the way it is now. I remember seeing people next to signs at the checkout explaining it and basically saying "Please don't give abuse if I won't sell you alcohol". It's pretty sad that that's necessary.

Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though? It is my company's policy to challenge 25. If I don't comply with this, I don't have a job and in the worse case scenario could be fined for providing alcohol to someone under 18.

I quite like being able to pay the bills.

It's about looking at the dynamic of a group. A teenager shopping with mum has probably been dragged there/stopped off on their way back from somewhere. Two young people together, wel why would another be there buying alcohol if they weren't going to be spending the evening together? Does that make sense...? I'm not sure I'm articulating myself properly.

I've also had granny and teenager in. Granny told me she had been ill and her GDD was helping her pack. Teenager was (stroppily) helping. I had no reason to suspect the bottle of Sherry in the shopping was for the teenager!

"Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though?"

This is just the way some people are. They speak in shocking fashion to someone because they're in a uniform or are working when they would never in a million years speak in the way that they do to a friend or colleague or even a stranger. But because they're a customer they think that this gives them some sort of right to act in this way, because they know no one can call them out on it. It's like they don't even look at you as an individual with any feelings. It's horrible.

I worked in Tesco and the reason the over 25 thing was brought in was its easier for 15.16 year olds to look 18.Not so easy to look 25.
Ive refused sales before as i seen younger kids pass the money right beside me for drink.

I know someone who was sacked on the spot for selling drink underage.
I do think in some cases its getting stupid being refused drink cause you have your kids wiht you.

PeacockFeathers Sun 13-Jan-13 12:23:22
Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though? It is my company's policy to challenge 25. If I don't comply with this, I don't have a job and in the worse case scenario could be fined for providing alcohol to someone under 18.

Actually it would depend on HOW the person asking me challenged me.

It would also depend on whether I was holding my car keys, had my wedding ring on, whether I had a trolley load of shopping with me and whether I was paying by credit card or not.

It would depend on who I was being accompanied by.

And thats without looking AT me and my face/hands.

I do think common sense needs to also be applied. I do think some people who work at tills are quite clearly being overly cautious and a few lacking brain cells.

And like I say, they tend to pick on certain groups rather than others. A petite woman of 34 is more likely to be challenged than a 6'2" 28 year old for example.

The policy is not being applied fairly and some cashiers are downright rude about how they do it too.