To ask - tiger mums

[dubbada]

Ok ladies so tiger mums what are the general feelings? Just reading the book and thought I would ask

Tiger mothering won't work for everyone, though. In contrast, have a read of this, which has been a topic for discussion here on MN

oh, I like Tiger Mum. The book is pretty funny and she knows she's slightly bonkers.

I'm a half arsed, don't quite have enough time to be a proper Tiger Mum type. The DC's (6 & 4) had to do a couple of pages of maths or english work books every day over the Xmas holidays though.

I liked the book, I got where she was coming from but was frustrated with her martyrdom getting the dog for example, (I could be on about a diff book it was a good while ago I read it) and I really rooted for her defiant daughter wanting to play tennis.

I couldn't do this I don't have the motivation or inclination and I find it quite cruel to take practising to the extreme. On holiday, no friends, no sleepovers no other life is no real pay off for playing and instrument good IMO.

My point is: what is the point of your dc playing an instrument? To do it professionally or to be buskers?

Its not what I want for my dc.

My friend wants to be a tiger mum, she has the right ethnic background, I just can't work out if she's being serious or not .

Is it just a pushy parent? Could it not with the 'wrong children' make them lose confidence when their failings are always highlighted?

I'm in no way a pushy mum, I CBA. But my 7YO 'plays' the piano we're holding off on the school cello/violin (too screechy). But I do 'make' him go to tennis and swimming, he whinges on the way there and always says good in response to the how was it question as we drive home.

I don't think he'll be an Olympic swimmer/tennis pro/concert pianist but as a child I did swimming/Brownies/guitar and kept going even when I didn't want to. I thinks extra curricular stuff keeps them more rounded.

Doesn't it take 10,000 hours of practice to become properly good at something, piano playing, computer programming, hitting golf balls? To get to 10,000 hours you'd have to start pretty darn young like Bill Gates and Tiger Woods did (sorry no piano player example!).

I don't rally want that kind of life for my DDs, but of course it will ultimately be up to them what they end up doing...

After reading the thread I'd like to read the book though!

*I don't really want...

This is just the middle class shit I would expect, more rounded.

I don't want my children to be rounded, certainly not by extra activities that I have imposed on them.

My children will be fine financially. I don't need them to do shit. Jesus my parents will be fine, they don't need to play an instrument either.

So what do you want for your children? I use the word 'rounded' but I just mean have variety in life, and ultimately enjoy it, not be rich. If I let my DSs they would both currently play skylanders all day, I'm not sure that is good for them.

But as HeartsTrumpDiamonds I now I'm more interested in reading the book after this thread.

It's not just about being rich later, it's about developing transferrable skills and discovering your strengths through mediums which you just won't have access to ordinarily i.e. in the park, in lessons, around the dinner table. Also with music lessons you usually have an hour's attention paid to you, just you, to work on your problems- like a glove. Having an area in life where you can actually see yourself progressing is a big self esteem boost. And no, children don't need to have their self esteem constantly boosted, but it's not just that.....it's about having something stable, separate from your everyday life, something else in structure. And later it can be something you really enjoy.
Given half a chance I would have quit piano about five times. But I stuck it out until suddenly I really started to enjoy it, age about 15/16, and now I have nice certificates to show it and an extra bit of knowledge. I wish I'd stuck to dance too.
I'm not talking about signing your kids up to five extracurric things a week. But we shie away so much from forcing kids to do anything these days- they won't perish, the darlings! If you only ever do everything you absolutely must do, gosh, you cut yourself off from so much.

It's not middle class shit actually what is middle class shit is this thing of "my children are their own beings, I can't impose my personality on them" to be quite honest.

But where does the argument about being 'rounded' stop? Should we stop teaching history because it's unnecessary? Stop teaching art because no one needs to draw? The tiger mother approach is about committment to your child's education to the extreme. (Driving hundreds of miles for music lessons and extra curricular activities etc). It's not about doing the work for them.

I wish that I had read it before the media hype; I suspect i would have highly enjoyed the self-parody and found it thoughtful even when I didn't agree. I just can't read it with an open-mind now.

I applied but failed to get into Ivy League Universities, because my extra-curriculars were nothing of note. You need excellent extra-curricular/leadership record to get into Ivy League, there is a cultural aspect to why she's so obsessed. So I understand why Chua was so driven. I think on MN there is a great element of hypocrisy in the reactions to Chua. She is A LOT like many MNers who fret about their DC getting top results at GCSE so as to attend top/RG/Oxbridge Unis: as though no other path in life could be worthwhile. This manifests in considerable handwringing all the way back to choosing the "right" primary school for reception year.

I couldn't be a Tiger Mum. Not that obsessive or energetic.

But how will her children be later in life? I predict they will not handle life so well later on.

I enjoyed the book, and agree that she's quite funny and knows she's slightly bonkers. I didn't agree with her methods, because I think denying your child sleepovers or the opportunity to take part in a school play is depriving them of an important part of childhood.

I think she does have one very important point however, which is that practice is the key to success in anything - more than talent. That's very different from most parents' attitudes, which is that innate ability is key.

I think it's worked for them because she has that particular personality- as hackmum says, funny and she knows she's slightly bonkers. And in all likelihood the daughters have inherited that personality too, so are able to cope.

Doesn't mean it's going to work for a different family with a different family dynamic.

I knew several well rounded girls with high expectations on them in my young days. Some of them came through brilliantly, some just opted out when they got a chance to do so, some died from anorexia. In fact, all the anorexia cases I have known have fitted into that precise category of well rounded girls with high expectations. To put it brutally, some of them did perish

I don't think the answer is not to commit to the things that make life enjoyable. I want my children to get a lot out of life and sometimes that does mean hard work.

But I also want them to learn to live with failure, to know that if you sometimes have to retranch and do slightly less it doesn't mean you are worthless or have lost everything that makes life worth living. And it certainly won't mean that they have let their mum down.

Just sounds like a recipe for eating disorders, self harm, and suicide to me.

Sounds awful. I'm a Mum, not an army sergeant. Are these children well adjusted, confident without arrogance, able to cope with ups and downs in life, empathic (tempted to read damn it)

practice is the key to success in anything...That's very different from most parents' attitudes, which is that innate ability is key.

Do they really? I don't perceive that. I think most folk accept high achievement is a nearly equal parts mix of effort, talent & opportunity. I reckon the foundation of success is talent + opportunity and effort has to build on those; but the thing is, they all need to be in there. None of those is completely hard wired but none is under complete individual control, too.

Being American I found it refreshing that the British don't think effort is everything; I think it's quite an unhealthy attitude to believe that Effort is All because it also means that failure must be all one's fault, too. Recipe for depression.

But then Chua wrote her book for Americans, where the culture is to emphatically believe that anyone can do anything. Not sure who was supposed to be her conversion audience there.

I know two tiger mums - one of whom is Chinese.

They're both lovely people and tbh I envy their energy.

I'd like to be a tiger mum, but I don't have good enough health and my children won't be told much now they're teenagers - I really think they'd rebel with probably disastrous consequences. Having said that, DD was made to practise her instrument when she was younger and recently said she's glad as she loves her music and has achieved a lot. (she's classed as musically gifted though - I wouldn't have gone to a lot of effort if she wasn't musical)

If I was fit enough to do the tiger mum thing my concern would be that my DCs might become ill. As it is, I now worry that my teens are underperforming and will look back and wish they'd been pushed a bit more.

A lot depends on the children.