Pregnancy and alcohol

[Whatwhatwhat]

I'm just about pregnant and in the very early stages. It's number 2 all going well.

A colleague with two children tells me she had a half bottle of wine every evening through both her pregnancies. Children are now 11 and 9 and seemingly perfect. She loves wine and for her those two glasses were fine.

Isn't that too much?

Actually, Dahlen there is some evidence now that binging at certain points in the pregnancy causes different aspects of FASD. So, at different stages drinking could cause facial issue or LD or something else.

I'd be interested in reading more about that MrsTP. I know that regular or even just-a-bit-more-than-occasional binge drinking can cause problems (as it does in non-pregnant women, and men, of course), but I hadn't come across anything to suggest that a one-off had such an effect. That's quite sobering (no pun intended, but quite funny nonetheless ).

Personally, I can't imagine wanting to drink that much during pregnancy. I always felt sick or was suffering from raging heartburn that wine would have aggravated beyond tolerable levels.

It may be more of a three-day-bender type of binge than a one off normal-range binge Dahlen. Some of the people who researchers interview aren't... reliable about their own use.

I remember thinking that pregnancy does some of it's own protection work around alcohol use (I did that thinking with my head down the toilet after one dry cracker, never mind Veurve Clicquot).

trying to word this delicately and diplomatically,..... I have a friend with an adopted child with foetal alcohol syndrome too, poor little mite has to live with severe difficulties for the rest of his life and will need lifelong care, my friend is a single parent and I admire her so much for 'taking him on' just for the simple reason she fell in love with him.

she has so many probs coping with him,(wish I could help more but I have my own issues with my DC) but she would never give him up, not like the 'person' who drank like a fish all she wanted (Im prob going to get backlash here, I know, some women drink through preggs and kids seem fine, but apparantly FAS is becoming more and more common these days and my friend said that 98% of these kids affected are in care or adopted) and then she couldnt cope/be bothered with him when he was diagnosed, she wasn't an ignorant person (obv dont know whole story) but liked her drink too much to think of the baby's health. and literally 'threw him away'.(doesnt alcohol also go thru the placenta? ) maybe she drank TOO much, I dont know, maybe just a little is ok?

Not trying to sound judgy-pants but it just seems common sense not to put unhealthy stuff in your body when you're carrying a life in there?

I mean. my DC has severe disabilities, yet I never drank/smoked, etc etc. always ate healthy, so whats THAT about???? so....

some kids turn out fine and some dont, either way, but I would implore preg women not to drink or smoke . please. its only a few months. please.

Two glasses a night is IMO too much, but it's not like she can go back in time and undo it is it? There's no point judging her for it now, just don't follow in her footsteps.

half bottle a day? too much for anyone pregnant or not

Personally, I think that, as others have said, half a bottle of wine every night is a quite a lot to be drinking when you aren't pregnant. I say this as someone who loves wine and who has probably on average a glass a week at the mo (pg with DC2.) So, to my mind it is too much when you are pregnant.

Someone told me, can't remember who, that the reason the current limit is no alcohol in pregnancy is because otherwise, any guidance on a weekly limit is open to interpretation or misunderstanding and therefore, the clearest and most easily understood message is one of total abstinence.

When I was pregnant some weeks I had 2 x drinks on two separate days, ie Friday night two glasses (small) of wine and Sunday lunch with a roast two glasses of wine, I also went many weeks at a time not fancying a glass and had none, I was healthy and my mid wife said that this was fine but as the pregnancy progressed I felt terrible guilt and lost sleep over this. If I have a second pregnancy I won't behave the same and really won't touch a drop for first 12 weeks. I would have saved myself so much anguish.

Spending many hours reading about this (fretting) I found out that Week seven is a critical week in FAS in regards to facial traits of the condition, also 15 drinks a week is mooted by experts as "almost certainty" an amount to cause lower birth weight. Lots of people drink and have babies that develop into lovely clever people but it's the "what if" that is terrifying, for example the baby could have been born 6lbs5 and healthy yet had Mum not drank the baby might have been heavier? The intelligence aspect too, a bright child doing quite well might have had a couple of points of extra IQ had drink not been used, the child not doing well in school with attention issues etc etc

I think that is partly true Ethel and partly due to know one knowing exactly how much causes harm the answer likely depending on the particular mother as well.

I think that's quite a lot to drink every day whether you're pregnant or not, and personally I wouldn't.

If her children are fine, then I guess that's the important thing. I wouldn't advise OP or anyone else to do the same though.

marjproops, I have adopted a child with FAS too.

I just cannot get my head around the fact that women would risk permanent damage to their child for the sake of drink. DD's birth mum was a 'social drinker', not an alcoholic.

DD was very small at birth, had blue lips, fingers and toes for the first 7 years (her fingers are still blue most of the time), has epilepsy and learning difficulties. She also struggles with empathy and conscience.

Not worth the risk IMO .

My midwife told me that new research is pointing to if you drink in a certain stage of pregnancy and rather than how much you drink.

Shockers, well done on loving this child and being a proper mother to her.

Whatwhatwhat - the placenta doesn't properly take over till 7-8 weeks I think (read this when researching re pcos and hormone probs and the foetus apparently is more self sufficient till the placenta develps - I may be wrong and it may relate more to hormone production.)

Half a bottle a day sounds fine if you're not pregnant and it's small glasses not fish bowls with stems attached. I know someone who drinks at least one bottle but usually two per evening. The amount she can put away when socially drinking would probably kill a rhino.

When pregnant I think it is probably too much though.

My DD2 (who is adopted) probably has FAE. We have no diagnosis but her mum drank a lot in pregnancy (she was not an alcoholic though). She has a lot of emotional/behavioural issues and some is not caused by FAE, but by her early life and PTSD, so it's hard to pick out what causes what, but she has problems with impulse control, empathy, linking cause and effect, she was underweight and early, she has mild LD's. These are all well recognised problems which occur in children with FASD.

Now, I'm pretty sure one glass of wine a month or something will do no lasting damage. Whereas half a bottle a night is way too much. But still, drinking is a risk, and I don't understand why you would carry on drinking every day or in any regular pattern, or bingeing once you know you are pregnant. It's not worth the risk.

Chances are that you could drink a couple of glasses a night and the baby would be fine, the trouble is, if the baby was born with problems, you would never know if you had caused them by drinking. I'd imagine that would be very hard to live with!

Also - disregarding other pg food/drink advice - eg soft cheese is different imo as they are relating to potential food poisoning whereas the alcohol is definitely passed to the foetus. It is v unlikely with current health and safety in the food industry to get food poisoning such as listeria or salmonella. I don't agree that lumping these in with alcohol in the "controling women" argument is right.

I do think the foetus should be protected above the need for toxins such as alcoholand nicotine which we know to be harmful.

And yes, it appears that what day/week of pregnancy the drinking takes place will affect what happens, which makes perfect sense. If you drink when facial features in development, it is quite likely the child will show facial features of FASD, ditto for heart defects etc. Different parts of the brain develop at different times as well

For me 2 glasses every night is too much I can get drunk on one
I've chosen not to drink in pregnancy but I don't judge people that do.

I'm being devil's advocate here but I do think it is a feminist issue. The advice is to drink nothing NOT because that is what the research supports. The research points to mothers who drink a small amount of alcohol having healthier children. By that token, we should actually encourage teetotalers to drink a small amount. Obviously that is nonsense but all the people saying that any amount is too much are not correct according to current data. BTW I understand that the data does not support the idea that it is the alcohol making these children healthier, in case anyone thinks I'm an idiot.

We are told not to drink at all because as Ethelred says, the reason the current limit is no alcohol in pregnancy is because otherwise, any guidance on a weekly limit is open to interpretation or misunderstanding and therefore, the clearest and most easily understood message is one of total abstinence. However, that only applies to women who are pregnant. We have all heard that a glass of red wine a couple of times a week can be fine/beneficial. Why are people who aren't pregnant intelligent enough to know that means a SMALL amount and women who are pregnant aren't?

The new research mentioned upthread stating it's when in pregnancy you drink rather than how much per se that effects the development of a foetus is really interesting! Makes sense.

I had maybe three glasses of wine over my whole pregnancy. Even then, they were very small. I even waited until after the 20 week scan because I knew that if it showed up an abnormality I would blame myself for having a tiny glass of wine! I think what it comes down to in the end is your own limits. For me, it wasn't worth it and I learned to unwind in other ways (mostly with cake or in a bubble bath). My personal opinion is that 1/2 a bottle of wine a night is too much when pregnant. However, there will be people who consumed the same amount who have perfectly healthy children. I just know I couldnt cope with the 'what if' if something had been wrong. My hormones coupled with the fact that my dd was my PFB meant that I convinced myself that the reason she had colic was because I was too active during pregnancy, and the reason I didnt lactate and therefore couldn't breastfeed was because I didn't gain enough weight during pregnancy. Both of those things were completely irrational, but the guilt I felt during those first few months was overwhelming at times. I know now, a year later that I was hormonal and suffering from the blues, but still, in future pregnancies I wouldn't risk it because it would cause me too much worry.