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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To get a forwarding address from thieving renters

50 replies

Afrodizzywonders · 05/01/2013 14:11

Long story, but in a nutshell...

We have a property that is being renovated, we live in one self contained end, the middle section is needing doing up and the far end section is an operating holiday let. In order to help get the middle section up and running as a let we offered it rent free via local Ads and gum tree to people willing to do 14 hours work a week with my husband, they would be responsible for council tax, bills etc and they had free wi fi from us.

The people we eventually chose moved in, they were great, really liked them. It all went tits up 2 days ago when we discovered via my mug who stayed with us for a month whilst I gave birth to DS2 that they had 'borrowed' £50 from her and not paid her back after lots of hard luck stories. It turned out to be £150 not what she agreed, she only found out after she went to the cashpoint (she gave them her card) she's a partially sighted disabled pensioner. Turns out they have taken money from our business account which they had access to which my husband let them use to get materials for the refurb, they also lied about paying other monies back they borrowed from us a month ago. I could go into everything here but they have blatantly lied to use and stole and took from a vulnerable pensioner, when I confronted them about my mother they pretended it was £50 they took until I told them it was £150 and the. Changed their story.

It gets worse. Apparently bailiffs are coming, my mum heard them talking about this, they haven't paid their council tax on this property or the previous one.

My husband has taken one of the guys trade tools he stored in our garage as assurance that they repay the £250 they owe us (not including fuel we paid for them that we have written off) which they can have back as soon as we are repaid in full and they don't do any funny business with the property. they have 7 days from yesterday to get out.

They are refusing to give us a forwarding address....the address of one of their parents basically as we want to be able to forward creditors etc onto them. Is this unreasonable????

What a mess, does anyone have any advice, this is such a horrid situation, I have. Newborn and toddler I'm looking after and just feel overwhelmed. We really liked these people and trusted them, I return they stole from us and took advantage of my mother who also liked them.

OP posts:

EllieArroway · 05/01/2013 14:33

It's also a crime to withhold their belongings from them for ANY reason. You could actually be arrested for theft. Not fair, but that's the law.

hippoCritt · 05/01/2013 14:34

Please ring 101 chances are they are already known to the police, so sorry this has happened to you all

HollyBerryBush · 05/01/2013 14:34

Be careful about the work tools - you could be done for theft

LIZS · 05/01/2013 14:35

So they still have the gall to live there ? Pleas ego to the police. Something doesn't ring true. At very least they are confidence tricksters relying on the embarrassment of their victims to enable them to continue their scams.

NamingOfParts · 05/01/2013 14:35

Tell the police. These people have defrauded an elderly and vulnerable lady. You may well find that these people have done this before. Even if the police cant actually do anything this time at least this will be recorded.

StiffyByng · 05/01/2013 14:35

It's not a civil matter, they have stolen from you and your mother. Company employees with full access to company accounts are prosecuted for theft when they misuse those privileges, and pressuring an elderly woman into handing over her debit card is also not something they should get away with.

Original poster

Afrodizzywonders · 05/01/2013 14:36

Ok Oreo. DH is out with DS1 at the minute, will do on his return. I think they will bail quickly as work is spreading about them owning money and everyone here is getting very twitchy wanting their money back.

No bond was taken.

The tools are the only security we have, it's the only thing one of the values, so only leverage.

OP posts:

EllieArroway · 05/01/2013 14:38

As boomting says, the only way around this is if they could be considered lodgers.

If they don't actually share living accommodation with you then they are NOT lodgers and, from what you say, it doesn't sound like they are.

I know you just want shot of them - but are you willing to end up a criminal record & a bill for £10k? This is serious OP.

ohforfoxsake · 05/01/2013 14:39

I really would give them their property back, cut my losses and chalk it up to experience.

No, it's not fair and it shouldn't have happened, but you may be opening up a can of worms withholding their property and the stress on you of taking this further probably won't be worth it.

Return bills to sender with 'no longer at this address' and let the Council know they are no longer there.

Put it down to a life lesson. Sorry.

Original poster

Afrodizzywonders · 05/01/2013 14:39

I'm really worried now.

OP posts:

Mu1berryBush · 05/01/2013 14:41

no way would i give my landlords my forwarding address!!

ohforfoxsake · 05/01/2013 14:41

I think it's worth telling the police however.

Also be careful with your insurance and mortgage if you have one, as renting part of your property out - even as a lodger - can change things. You should by rights notify them first apparently.

EllieArroway · 05/01/2013 14:42

Call Shelter, Afrozzy, tell them everything & tell them now. They will know instantly whether you are acting legally or not (and I'm 99% certain that you're not).

I so sympathise. What arseholes they sound. But the law is the law is the law :(

boomting · 05/01/2013 14:42

This is very serious. If they are serial "professional tenants" (as opposed to tenants who are professionals) then they may very much know their rights and will take you to court for compo for illegal eviction.

The theft (bearing in mind that you have now both stolen from each other - the money and the tools) MUST be dealt with as a separate matter to the tenancy. Post on the forum that I linked to above - there are some very good landlords on there who help people like you.

NamingOfParts · 05/01/2013 14:43

Dont assume that they will scarper. They may be just as knowledgeable about the law as the good folk on this thread. They may be relying on you acting illegally to get cash out of you through the courts.

EllieArroway · 05/01/2013 14:44

Or post on the forums here:

www.landlordzone.co.uk/

Lots of legal experts there.

HappyNewHissy · 05/01/2013 14:44

You have been incredibly naïve, sadly.

It may be that you have no redress, but they may have form for this stuff previously, and other police forces may need to know their whereabouts.

Call the police. What more have you all got to lose?

Toughasoldboots · 05/01/2013 14:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oreocrumbs · 05/01/2013 14:47

Don't panic - take control.

I'm presuming you haven't put the 7 days notice in writing? So you haven't technically evicted them yet.

Ring the police. Tell them everything (apart from the bit about the tools and the 7 days).

See what the police say but my guess is they can charge them with something, and I really would expect them to scarper after the police come.

That will all be delt with by the police, so ignore that for now, and then issue the correct notice to quit. Usually a section 21 - landlord zone and landlord action are good websites for information.

They will probably go long before that, but at least you hyave the ball in motion.

I would also speak to the other people they owe money to, and tell them what has happened - you don't have to tell people a lot to start a witch hiunt when money is concerned. I imagine when people find out you are starting an eviction process and that they stole from you, they will start turning up wanting money from them.

They will probably bugger off.

DontmindifIdo · 05/01/2013 14:49

I would tell them you want your money back and you want them out within the week or you are going to the police, I doubt you are the first people they have ripped off.

You might be wrong in the way you are evicting them, but faced with the police and having to face their other creditors in order to make a claim against you to stay, you will probably find they run.

DeafLeopard · 05/01/2013 14:49

Agree with Naming - a friend had to evict a non paying tenant and even though the tenant hadn't paid for months and did damage to their property, they still had to follow the law very carefully.

Sadly there are people like your tenants who do know the law and act in such an awful way as to get landlords to behave unlawfully through frustration and then they tie them in knots.

I would go so far as to advise you to pay for proper legal advice, it may save you a lot of money in the long run.

hippoCritt · 05/01/2013 15:24

Did you say verbally about wanting them out or by letter? Please not by letter

Original poster

Afrodizzywonders · 05/01/2013 15:33

It was verbally hippo.....

Just waiting for DH to get back. Don't need this stress :(. Just looking after a newborn is hard enough.

OP posts:

Nancy66 · 05/01/2013 15:45

I would just chuck them out right now. Fuck giving them any notice.

they're crooks - they've stolen and - from what you say- they have ripped off other people in the village. They're not going to go to the police.

You won't get your money back.

I wouldn't return the guy's tools either.

'taken your tools? I don't know what you're talking about mate. I haven't touched your tools.'

Play them at their own game.

HappyNewHissy · 05/01/2013 16:05

Take advice on slinging them out. If you don't adhere to the law on the notice, they could legitimately sue you.

Serve proper notice, then call the police. Don't alert them to your calling the police.

I'm thinking 'obtaining money by deception' ought to be a possible charge here.

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