Should I be frank with Dsis or brush it under the carpet?

[CuttedUpPear]

I have had a falling out with my Dsis about 6 months ago.

She found out about a close and long term family friend of hers who had taken advantage of her vulnerable daughter at the age of 17. This friend had started picking my niece up from her boyfriend's house after they had argued, (which was happening often) taking her to his house, getting her drunk and having sex with her, on several occasions. It ended when my niece managed to tell him to leave her alone but she spent a year living away from home in breakdown, becoming hospitalised twice, before my sister found out this year.

My Dsis has said a few things about this that really disturbed me:
She refused to tell my niece's father about this because she said he was emotionally vulnerable and really relied upon my niece for support.
She told a mutual friend that Dniece had done something really bad and that she (Dsis) couldn't hold her head up walking down the street because of it.
She said she could understand the 'friend' becoming attracted to my niece because she was so voluptuous.
Shortly before Dsis found out, she had been taking cocaine with Dniece and the 'friend' together at a weekend away - she said that's when she noticed their body language together was strange.
Shortly after Dsis found out, the 'friend' fell and broke some ribs. She said she would go and visit him in hospital as she knew how much that could hurt having broken a rib herself in the past.
She said that she understood why Dniece hadn't told her anything all this time as she had agreed with the 'friend' not to tell anyone and that was fine.

Dsis has a history of mental issues and I'm the one in my family left carrying the responsibility of being there for her. After trying to offer some (asked for) advice and getting a barrage of justifications I gave up and we haven't spoken for 6 months.

Now it's xmas and Dsis has texted to say shall we just forget about it and have some fun together?

I will go and see the family, and I won't bring this up, what I want to know is - is it ok to briefly mention in my email to her that although I don't want to go into it all over again, I still feel upset by her actions.
I feel so bad for my niece but nothing can be done now.

I feel that I can't just accept her invite and brush over all this.

I'm not saying your sis's partner is an abuser, what I'm saying is that a parent who has the attitudes to abuse that your sister has turns her children into walking targets. Practically every person I know who was abused as a child (me included) had parents who had a similar sort of attitude. Caring parents who believe they should protect their children and who don't believe people bring abuse on themselves have a much higher chance of not letting an abusive situation happen. From the bonkers attitude your sister has displayed to the awful thinks that happened to your niece I would say her other children are as good as unprotected which puts them at high risk IMO.

ffs stop playing about here.
ask yourself if your dsis is fit to be in charge of any children.
she doesn't understand that you don't take your daughter away with a rapist friend and use cocaine together. she doesn't understand that it is not the teenager's fault if a family 'friend' repeatedly rapes her.(this makes me wonder what the heck was going on in the dneice's childhood years, by the way). at least one of her small children is sharing a bedroom with a man who is not his/her parent. if your sister was actively seeking to facilitate abuse, she couldn't have done a better job.
whilst its almost certain it isn't deliberate, and who knows what happened in her life to make her behave like this, it really is time that ss were brought in to help her sort out her perspective.
don't tell us. tell them.

cuttedup your dsis is not fit to look after these children.

Not because of her illness, but because she encourages contact with a rapist, won't do what is necessary to provide decent living arrangements for her children and takes illegal drugs with her child.

You need to step in here. Maybe phone NSPCC for advice.

I don't think the fact it happened a few years ago is relevant. Timing sounds like sis may even have been pregnant or have had a lo at the time. Unfortunately such a pattern of behaviour is one that is very likely to perpetuate unless someone intervenes with the dn's . Ideally it needs to come from someone outside the family. Please contact one of the helplines - NSPCC, Childline, Samaritans et al - and ask advice as to where you can report it. Does she have a HV or keyworker in MH /SS ? Also encourage dn1 to have counselling , maybe Rape Crisis even if she doesn't feel she was raped her trust was abused.

Sorry, but CaillinDana and others are right.

I am so sorry for all of you in this but while I realise you are angry, you are also looking at (and involved in) a whole set-up in which abuse flourishes. I don't know that the penny has wholly dropped for you yet. I don't say that in any blaming way - it's part of the systemic organisation of the whole thing. You are so used to caring for your sister (and she clearly does need that) that I think the whole thing isn't quite clear yet.

But she really is now in a position of perpetrating abuse herself: allowing it to go on, by her actions being abusive herself. CaillinDana is spot on, her subsequent children really do have virtual targets painted on them. When you read about abusive situations, this sort of thing (a whole network of other people who, for various reasons, enable the abuse to go on, render it "invisible", in various ways facilitate it) is exactly the wider network.

Obviously, I am very upset for your niece. But I am very upset for you, too, CuttedUpPear. You've "noticed" and because of the person you are, you are disturbed and I strongly suspect you will now feel very torn between the "silence" and "not noticing" that seems to be pursued by others around your sister (perhaps derived from a poor protection strategy) and an urge to "do something" - which will inevitably rock the boat, and pull apart that carefully constructed network woven from silence and blindness - which also happens to be your family.

What is so striking in your posts is the network of witholding of information. So many people who know so many things - but strategically withold ffrom communicating them freely and openly, for risk of "hurting" or wanting to "protect". And all these adults being protected by their offspring. Your niece being raped secretly by her mother's former lover and her father not being told because she has to llok after him; your mother not knowing what is going on; your sister ... who is all over the place; and your friend being roped into the role of a silencer.

It sounds horrible. Whatever you do, bear in mind that this dysfunctional situation willinevitably have its effects on your won little family unit, however much you try to keep it separate. It already clearly influences on how you behave/communicate with "your" friends.

I've thought a bit more.

I think you are brave posting here. I'm impressed by the deep reservoirs of loyalty and love you must hold for your family that have made you go far deeper than just offering a shallow silence and acceptance of some very damaging behaviour. It takes a massive amount of commitment to truth to find the words to begin putting a shape on all this sort of thing.

For the record, I have no idea whether I would have that amount of character if I were in your shoes.

I don't want to say anything that sounds like "telling you off" or belittling you, when in fact I think you have taken quite a major step, in what will probably be a fairly horrible journey.

But ... you posted this (I think) in order to get views from "outside" the network and (I guess) to get a few ideas for what to do. (Is that true?? I don't know.)

I think it's too much to expect you to handle all this, and take on the responsibility of sorting out what is a terrible mess. I think I would suggest a chat with Social Services. Sorry, but I think your sister sounds as though she requires some serious intervention. And (my experience of all this is so limited,) but can you 'phone Childline and just talk to them about it? There must be advice out there for how to deal with all of this.

By the way, there are many women who parent very effectively, though they have mental health issues. It is the form of your sister's MH issues that is so very damaging. And damaging it is.

Good luck.

Thanks for your responses. gatheringlilac yes I am looking for outside opinions here.

I'm not sure what a chat with SS would achieve. From what Dsis told me 6 months ago, Dniece1 says that the intercourse wasn't rape but that she was drunk every time. She was 18 when it happened. Dsis's opinion is that Dniece has dealt wit it in her own way and it'sover now - except that Dsis has 'lost her best friend'.

I don't want to bring it up with Dniece as I think it would be difficult for her.

And I don't know if SS would do anything about the sleeping arrangements at Dsis's house?

I'm not sure why you think everyone ignoring your DNiece's obvious problems will help her? Do you honestly think just pretending that someone hasn't been through a horrendous experience will make them feel better?

I'm not sure why you think everyone ignoring your DNiece's obvious problems will help her? Do you honestly think just pretending that someone hasn't been through a horrendous experience will make them feel better?

why not just tell social services whats going on, and let them decide?

CailinDana I'm not ignoring Dniece1's problems. She had a breakdown last year but is recovered now - as recovered as anyone can be. I actually see very little of her in person but I'm going to try to visit her in her college digs next month. We'll take it from there.

I don't know anything about SS but it seems like a lot of people on MN have experience - would/could they do anything about an adult male sharing a bedroom with an unrelated 6yo girl?

i think if you told them the background, they'd be very interested indeed.

as i teacher, if i heard about those rooming arrangements from a pupil, i would see it as a child protection issue.

The best way to find out if they'd be concerned is to ask them.

Personally though, I would speak to a HV/NSPCC first. Even at that, they can only offer advice and sometimes I think they get it wrong too!!

Be very clear though, if your dn was too drunk to give consent clearly then she was most definitely raped. Just because it happened repeatedly doesn't mean it's ok.

He sounds like a dangerous predator and your dn sounds like she needs someone in her life to balance her mother's influence.

I think you're right waltermitty DN does need someone in her life to redress the balance. I'm going to tread carefully though, as DN identifies closely with her mother at times - I think it's her way of dealing with Dsis's mental issues, by taking family ownership of them.

For me to try to insert myself between them might be counterproductive, as DN is very blase about the 'endearing' family madness and she might well present a brick wall to me.

I think the fact that you want to be there for her is a good starting point, pear.