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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not have a television licence if we don't watch live television?

134 replies

Meggymoodle · 18/12/2012 13:49

Some of our friends think we're unreasonable not to have a television licence. We don't have a television but we do watch things on BBC iplayer and itvplayer. We also listen to the radio.

In some ways, I can see the argument, we are not breaking the law - it states on the BBC licence pages that as long as you are not watching things through the internet as they are being shown on television, which we never do, you do not require a licence. However, are we being like Starbucks with the whole tax thing - not acting illegally but a bit morally suspect? (On a far lesser scale obviously!).

I'm not saying if everyone here thinks we ABU I will rush and get a licence but I'd be interested to see what the general consensus is.

OP posts:
Orwellian · 18/12/2012 18:04

You are not doing anything illegal and the BBC is the antithesis of morality, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

FannyBazaar · 18/12/2012 18:48

UANBU I love the argument of 'if everyone took the same approach then there would be no funding for the things you enjoy', interesting because I can't see a load of people suddenly giving up their TVs! If everyone took the same approach the BBC would have to look at changing how they are funded.

I don't have a TV and don't have a TV licence, I listen to BBC radio and use iPlayer without a guilty conscience. If the BBC wants to make iPlayer only available to people with licences or a pay per view service, I will review my decision according to whether I really want it or not.

The TV licensing company writes to everyone, if you tell them you have no TV they will ask you to confirm in writing. When I did this, they asked we when I stopped watching TV and volunteer to refund the licence money I had already paid! They get in touch again a couple of years later and you have to repeat the process. Occasionally I get a 'we called but you were out' card from the TV licensing people, reminding me again that it is an offence to watch live TV without a licence.

AFAIK you can't just make a charitable donation to the BBC as a gesture towards watching the occasional thing on iPlayer.

VisualiseAHorse · 18/12/2012 19:33

You are getting something for free that everyone else pays for. Not fair. Using licence payers money to watch tv for free.

MissCellania · 18/12/2012 19:33

That's like suggesting you pay road tax if you only use a bicycle!

Thats exactly what it is! All those banging on about how wrong it is, would they pay road tax if they only used a bicycle? Bet not, yet they'd be happy to enjoy the roads that others have paid for . In fact, if you haven't paid your road tax, you shouldn't even step onto the road to cross it, you vile, road stealing, non-paying parasites!

VisualiseAHorse · 18/12/2012 19:34

Those things are only available to watch/listen to because of licence payers.

LRDtheFeministDude · 18/12/2012 19:36

YANBU. I do this. My feeling is, if the BBC decided to charge, fine. If they put in adverts - IMO, all to the good. I like a nice chance to pop the kettle on in the middle of things.

I understand why richer people who wish to give away their money might do so and why people who really care about the BBC not using adverts might do so. And obviously you need it if you want to watch things live. But I don't.

LRDtheFeministDude · 18/12/2012 19:37

visualise, that isn't actually true, now, is it?

The BBC do not fund themselves solely off the license fee.

MissCellania · 18/12/2012 19:46

Less than 0.2% of households watch only catch up tv online, without a licences (perfectly legally). Hardly a big problem, is it?

StuntGirl · 18/12/2012 20:24

YANBU, immoral, or illegal.

Licence fee is for watching or streaming live television. They request nothing else. If you are not using that facility then it's all gravy baby.

Absy · 19/12/2012 09:14

Oh yes, the iplayer does have adverts as well as far as I can remember. So those are presumably helping to fund it.

valiumredhead · 19/12/2012 10:25

If there's one show you watch now and again, fair enough - but if you're watching Eastenders, Have I got News for You, Casualty, Strictly, etc, etc regularly, just an hour later on the i-player, I think there's a case that you are unfairly using a service you're not paying for, even if it is legal

But you are not using a service unfairly, you are watching programmes later than on a television and on a computer - therefore it is not 'the same service' at all.

Beograde · 19/12/2012 12:18

I think this is certainly an issue which isn't clear cut - I don't suppose I would err so much to one side of the grey line because I'm such a believer in what the BBC stands for.

valiumredhead · 19/12/2012 12:45

But there is no grey area or the BBC wouldn't provide iplayer Confused

VoiceofUnreason · 19/12/2012 13:01

Legally, YANBU.
Morally, YABU.

Those of us who do pay our licences are helping to fund the making of programmes that you watch via the internet.

I think the TV licence needs revisiting because the money goes to the BBC who also produce a helluva lot of hours of radio - national and local - and I suspect when you say you listen to the radio, you probably listen to the BBC.

Beograde · 19/12/2012 13:33

Valium, I think we've all ascertained that legally, there is no grey area; if you only watch iplayer, you don't need a TV licence. However, the question is whether there is a moral grey line, and given that several of us think that it could be seen as a little dodgy, that suggests it not as clear cut as you think.

I found this on a BBC blog about the topic.

"Well, the number of homes that currently have no television licence, but that do have broadband subscription is currently estimated to be infinitesimally small. The chances are if you want to watch BBC TV programmes via catch-up over the web, you are also watching some BBC programmes at other times, live or time-shifted, via a TV set, and will already have a TV licence.

If we saw, over time, that some people stopped receiving live broadcasts at all, stopped paying their licence fee, but continued to consume televison programmes, solely on-demand through the iPlayer (or other players), then we might have to consider talking to the Government about Part 4 of the Communications Act 2003 and the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004, so that they can then consider whether on-demand tv viewing might be brought within its aegis."

Original poster
Meggymoodle · 19/12/2012 13:36

Yes, absolutely when I listen to the radio I listen to the BBC. Point me in the direction of a Radio licence and I will willingly pay it.

No-one is coming up with an answer for this - I am not paying a full licence for an hour of non-live, old, BBC television per week. The BBC states categorically you do not need a licence if you don't watch television programmes whilst they're being broadcast which I don't. I will happily contribute should anyone point me in the direction of a part-licence. It doesn't exist.

OP posts:
Beograde · 19/12/2012 13:38

Meggy, I would say that if you're only watching an hour a week, I wouldn't worry about it too much - but I know people who watch several hours a week of BBC TV, and that's where I think, it starts to become a little morally suspect

spoonsspoonsspoons · 19/12/2012 13:57

We don't have a TV or a licence but we do watch some stuff on iplayer. If this required a licence we wouldn't watch anything online. This year we have watched the bridge and a program on glaciers.

Charliefarlie1192 · 19/12/2012 14:04

Yanbu because tv licensing sucks

tarantula · 19/12/2012 14:30

If the BBC want you to pay then they need to change the way the licensing works. Otherwise you are doing nothing wrong.

And it is nothing like bikes on the road not paying road tax cos road tax doesn't exist. Local roads are paid for using local council tax so actually cyclist and pedestrians are subsidising car drivers. Do we think that is immoral? and should non drivers get a council tax reduction??? Xmas Grin And what happens if the non tv licence payer is a cyclist? does that cancel things out? Where does it all end...

FrenchJunebug · 19/12/2012 15:47

I hope you enjoy watching all the BBC programs paid by my tv licence.

valiumredhead · 19/12/2012 15:49

Just yours french? Is it all your tax that pays for benefits too? Grin

Take it up with the BBC and ask them why they provide iplayer.

NadiaWadia · 19/12/2012 15:53

Beograde - I don't think the BBC can be right about the number of homes with broadband but no TV licence being 'infinitestimally small'. They have forgotten about students!

In DD's shared house no-one has a TV (and they don't even have living room) but they do absolutely need broadband, both for submitting work online, communicating with the uni, and of course for social purposes. Occasionally one or more of them will watch something on iPlayer on their laptops.

There must be many, many students across the UK doing the same thing, and I am glad they don't have to get a licence.

I think in the past, students could be included on a parent's licence anyway, so long as their TV was portable?

LRDtheFeministDude · 19/12/2012 16:43

french - no, sorry, I enjoy watching the ones paid for by loads of other things too.

OhDearNigel · 19/12/2012 17:05

The BBC could quite easily make the Iplayer license payers only. They looked into it several years ago and decided not to. So obviously they are quite happy with the situation